Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[zeylos]

Tbh I think that this they probably just using beast race demand as an excuse to not do male Viera due to their personal bias, yoship stated on an interview that since having male bunnies would be weird he might have to look into a different race for males. Basically, yoship placed his own interests on top of those of the community. GG SE

[grinkdaboy]

the problem i think with hrothgar is that they're pretty much a novelty and the only ones who won't fanta back after a week or two are furries. census data supports that roegadyns are the least played race by far, and these things are basically reskinned roegadyns. https://ffxivcensus.com/#racegender

[Roda]

It’s not wise to use the introduction of Male Miqo’te and Female Roes as a precedent/argument for them doing so for Viera/Hrothgar.

That was a decision taken during the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 when consumer confidence was at it's absolute lowest point and they needed every advantage they could get to bring people back including potentially compromising their own creative vision for the game (monogender playable races amongst them).

That was an exceptionally critical- Unique even - period in this game’s lifespan that has not been replicated since.

There are good reasons that they might add the other genders and good reasons they might not. But M.Miqo’te and F.Roe is realistically indicative of nothing in the current situation and that fact shouldn’t be held against the Devs should they decide not to add the genders later on.

This is a terrible argument against citing miqo'te roe and highlanders.
This implies it's ok for them to slack off / neglect player customization / brush off inconvenient fans / lower their quality standards / not finish things because they have player confidence to spend.

[niteypants]

Tbh I think that this they probably just using beast race demand as an excuse to not do male Viera due to their personal bias, yoship stated on an interview that since having male bunnies would be weird he might have to look into a different race for males. Basically, yoship placed his own interests on top of those of the community. GG SE

I think this has to be at least partly true, and it's a sign that Yoshi-P needs to relinquish some creative control.

They're leaving a lot of money on the table in not implementing male viera.

[Skivvy]

Tbh I think that this they probably just using beast race demand as an excuse to not do male Viera due to their personal bias, yoship stated on an interview that since having male bunnies would be weird he might have to look into a different race for males. Basically, yoship placed his own interests on top of those of the community. GG SE

We have no idea what he meant by saying male viera would be weird. In his mind he could have just been thinking of XII lore and how they're just about non-existent, and so it would be weird to see them in game. This was years ago, and was never elaborated on - but this community has seemingly embraced the worst possible assumption from this one-off comment.

[CoolDad]

We have no idea what he meant by saying male viera would be weird. In his mind he could have just been thinking of XII lore and how they're just about non-existent, and so it would be weird to see them in game. This was years ago, and was never elaborated on - but this community has seemingly embraced the worst possible assumption from this one-off comment.

I don’t think we’ll have mixed races for a while. Since it seems like Viera is popular around the world we have been proactively looking into this, but since having a rabbit male might be kind of weird, maybe we’ll look into having a separate race for the male counterpart.

Saying "rabbit male" has different implications than "Viera male".

[Skivvy]

Saying "rabbit male" has different implications than "Viera male".

He is referencing Viera in the same sentence - why would you assume he's not referring to male viera when he's talking about "rabbit males".

[Theodric]

Viera men would only be 'weird' if they were deliberately designed that way. Which, I fear, is a genuine risk. When requests were made for a male version of the bunny outfit a lot of the suggestions were along the lines of a bow tie 'shirt', some fancy cuffs, a pair of tight trousers and a pair of smart looking shoes to go with the bunny ears. Instead we ended up getting the female outfit transplanted onto the male model. Which completely alienated those of us who just wanted something conventionally attractive yet sexy for our male characters.

[Lukha]

We have no idea what he meant by saying male viera would be weird. In his mind he could have just been thinking of XII lore and how they're just about non-existent, and so it would be weird to see them in game. This was years ago, and was never elaborated on - but this community has seemingly embraced the worst possible assumption from this one-off comment.

This would be a reasonable possibility if the 'male rabbits would be weird' comment had happened in a vacuum, but it didn't. Alongside this we have
1. His refusal for several years to unlock the bunny costume for male characters (a rabbit-themed outfit which also happens to be sexy) despite many and extremely persistent requests for it
2. One of the many excuses given for no male bunny outfit was 'modelling it would make the male developers uncomfortable',
3. A statement that while the male bunny outfit was finally in development, it might take a while due to only female staff working on it.
4. The fact that, rather than release males with a similar aesthetic to female Viera (cute/sexy, lithe, with minimal feral features), they chose to go with the polar opposite and release a very macho, animalistic race.

The facts come together to paint a very clear picture of what was meant by 'male rabbits would be weird', all those years ago.


This is something I've been stewing over for a while, because I am firmly in the camp of believing this decision was sexist, and I'm honestly confused at the people who not only assert that they believe it was not, but practically froth at the mouth to defend the devs from the implication. I think the problem is that people aren't understanding what's being said.

I do not believe that Yoshida, or the team and SE in general are sexists, at least not deliberately. I DO think that they hold some sexist attitudes, most probably subconsciously, which heavily contributed to the decisions that have been made regarding gender locking and design over the past few years, not just with regards to races, but also gear. By Yoshida's own admission, he and male members of the team are uncomfortable with the male form being portrayed in a sexy way, which is understandable! I'm a little uncomfortable with female characters being portrayed in an overly sexy manner (whether that means in manner of dress, how they act, or both), especially in contexts where it's only the female characters, and male characters are instead dressing and acting normally. This is fine, it's natural to be uncomfortable when confronted with things that aren't to your particular tastes.

The only time it becomes a problem is when you're incapable of dealing with that discomfort to such an extent that it actually gets in the way of doing your job, or effects the quality of the job you are able to do. I think we've gotten to the point where this is undeniably the case, not only because of how they chose to implement races, but also because of other recent decisions, such as that to close the thigh-window on the Bonewicca set (as it was specified to be in the male version of the set) despite faithfully retaining the thigh-window (for females only) on the Skalla set shortly before, and the horror that is the spring bottoms on males.

Whether it's his own discomfort getting in the way, or his unwillingness to push his employees to get over their own, maybe it's time to have our Director/Producer step down to make way for someone able to do so. He's said before that he'd like someone to take over one of his positions, and maybe that would be enough, since he would no longer be completely responsible for and in control of the direction of the game? Perhaps they could even find a woman for the job, so there would be someone to deal with the parts he finds uncomfortable.

Viera men would only be 'weird' if they were deliberately designed that way. Which, I fear, is a genuine risk. When requests were made for a male version of the bunny outfit a lot of the suggestions were along the lines of a bow tie 'shirt', some fancy cuffs, a pair of tight trousers and a pair of smart looking shoes to go with the bunny ears. Instead we ended up getting the female outfit transplanted onto the male model. Which completely alienated those of us who just wanted something conventionally attractive yet sexy for our male characters.

Honestly, I wonder if the reason the implementation of this took so long, and ended up being just a copy/paste of the female version is because they either just put it off and put it off until they realized how long it had been since they said it was coming and had to slap something together last minute, or if our wonderful dev team was so uncomfortable at the very idea of male sex appeal that the bluescreened and couldn't come up with anything...
Like, I'm glad we finally got it, and I was excited about it, but it just looks too silly to use as anything but a PvP outfit. If they were going to give us a 1:1 copy of some female outfit, couldn't it at least have been the Thav set, which would mostly still look good on a guy even if you just flattened out the chest section?

[CoolDad]

He is referencing Viera in the same sentence - why would you assume he's not referring to male viera when he's talking about "rabbit males".

Because that's not what I'm saying at all.

The sentences "We're looking into Viera, but male Viera might be weird." And "We're looking into Viera, but male rabbits might me weird" have two entirely different implications. One could imply many things -- that because of lack of prior presence they might be weird, for lore reasons it might be weird, because there is something intrinsically weird about Viera being male, etc. Those implications don't apply to to the wording of the second phrase, as "rabbit males might be weird" is much more to the point. It's incredibly specific about what might be off-putting about a male viera: they're rabbits.

So

We have no idea what he meant by saying male viera would be weird.

We do. He could have any number of reasons for thinking so, and I don't necessarily agree with jumping to the conclusion that the absence of male Viera is absolutely because of a reason given in an interview from 2013, but we know with relative certainty that in this interview he was referring to the concept of male Viera being weird because they are male rabbits and not because of prior games or lore.