Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Lumadurin]

I relish in attempting to pull aggro off of tanks who do single-pulls despite them and the healer being more than geared enough to handle the incoming damage.
As a tank main I actually wince harder when I see it because I understand how inept they really are. At the bare minimum all you're expected to do is mash one button + a couple of cooldowns.
Of course there's multiple factors in play, I understand if someone who's new to tanking isn't very confident at 50, and I'll respect that. But if you're pulling this stunt in Expert Roulette and have multiple max level jobs you're just disrespecting the time of 3 other people.

[Hash_Browns]

No. I make the rules because the party can survive better with me being slapped around then the DPS and Healers. If I'm not there they're not advancing even with all the cures in the world.

Yeah, I ain't buying that.

I main all 3 healers, and I've never had a tank make large pulls and had to say "Hey buddy, slow down, that's too much." except in lower level dungeons (like below level 30) where the group doesn't have much AOE damage going on.

Tanks should be able to easily handle large pulls at high levels if they know what they are doing.
In the level 70 content I expect the tank to have an idea (as long as they aren't new to the dungeon) on how much they can handle, and not slap me with constant 4 enemy pulls.

When you pull less it means everyones DPS is worth less.

I relish in attempting to pull aggro off of tanks who do single-pulls despite them and the healer being more than geared enough to handle the incoming damage.
As a tank main I actually wince harder when I see it because I understand how inept they really are. At the bare minimum all you're expected to do is mash one button + a couple of cooldowns.
Of course there's multiple factors in play, I understand if someone who's new to tanking isn't very confident at 50, and I'll respect that. But if you're pulling this stunt in Expert Roulette and have multiple max level jobs you're just disrespecting the time of 3 other people.

This I can understand. Tanks that are new to dungeons/new to tanking obviously shouldn't charge ahead.

[Physic]

Yeah, I ain't buying that.

I main all 3 healers, and I've never had a tank make large pulls and had to say "Hey buddy, slow down, that's too much." except in lower level dungeons (like below level 30) where the group doesn't have much AOE damage going on.

Tanks should be able to easily handle large pulls at high levels if they know what they are doing.
In the level 70 content I expect the tank to have an idea (as long as they aren't new to the dungeon) on how much they can handle, and not slap me with constant 4 enemy pulls.

When you pull less it means everyones DPS is worth less.



This I can understand. Tanks that are new to dungeons/new to tanking obviously shouldn't charge ahead.

the tank is the one who knows the limits of thier own abilities. Just because some tanks are capable of large pulls does not mean all are. Also, just because the healer thinks he can heal it, doesnt mean he can.

ultimately i would say, its a combination of tank and healer that should decide the pace.


Regardless imo, its bad form to kick players for such a difference in opinion. No one is entitled to control another player legitimately attempting to play. Party find and premake your groups if you expect that high an amount of synergy as the minimum acceptable.

[Hash_Browns]

the tank is the one who knows the limits of thier own abilities. Just because some tanks are capable of large pulls does not mean all are. Also, just because the healer thinks he can heal it, doesnt mean he can.

ultimately i would say, its a combination of tank and healer that should decide the pace.


Regardless imo, its bad form to kick players for such a difference in opinion. No one is entitled to control another player legitimately attempting to play. Party find and premake your groups if you expect that high an amount of synergy as the minimum acceptable.

I thought that was what we were talking about?
Considering the OP opened with "Earlier today within discord a group of us got into an disagreement".

If a tank can't pull in a premade, they are gonna get kicked, just as DPS who don't do damage, or healers who can't multi-task damage/healing do.

If you enter level 70 duties, and don't know your class, or how it works - expect people to get mad at the very least.

[Physic]

I thought that was what we were talking about?
Considering the OP opened with "Earlier today within discord a group of us got into an disagreement".

If a tank can't pull in a premade, they are gonna get kicked, just as DPS who don't do damage, or healers who can't multi-task damage/healing do.

If you enter level 70 duties, and don't know your class, or how it works - expect people to get mad at the very least.

if it was a party finder or premade i doubt there would be much debate.

its probably a duty finder, as people rarely use partyfinder for dungeons.

also level 70 duties are not what i would consider, high bar content. You can level to 70 without knowing every aspect of your class, and definitely not every aspect of each dungeon. Even when its bad, its not that bad as well.

Also, its not always not knowing your class, its sometimes the comfort of how you want to play. Some people prefer a relaxed pace, and some prefer a fast pace. I think its unfair to expect high synergy at the most casual of group content (duty finder dungeons)

[Hash_Browns]

if it was a party finder or premade i doubt there would be much debate.

its probably a duty finder, as people rarely use partyfinder for dungeons.

also level 70 duties are not what i would consider, high bar content. You can level to 70 without knowing every aspect of your class, and definitely not every aspect of each dungeon. Even when its bad, its not that bad as well.

Also, its not always not knowing your class, its sometimes the comfort of how you want to play. Some people prefer a relaxed pace, and some prefer a fast pace. I think its unfair to expect high synergy at the most casual of group content (duty finder dungeons)

As he stated, it was in a Discord group, meaning it wasn't in the duty finder - it was people using voice chat in discord (I'm going to guess a FC). Also I would like to clarify, as I did with earlier posts - if the tank is new to the dungeon, or is new to the class I see no problem with small pulls. However, once you get to 70, you should really, really, be able to do the most basics of your class.

[Physic]

As he stated, it was in a Discord group, meaning it wasn't in the duty finder - it was people using voice chat in discord (I'm going to guess a FC). Also I would like to clarify, as I did with earlier posts - if the tank is new to the dungeon, or is new to the class I see no problem with small pulls. However, once you get to 70, you should really, really, be able to do the most basics of your class.

he is not totally clear here, my read is that 3 people within their discord kicked a fourth rando duty finder player and then replaced them with a tank from thier discord.

also it seems he is asking what makes sense as a general rule.


i don't really think large pull sizes are basics of your class. Each tank you play with has a different style and prediliction. They also have different concepts of what us a large pull.

some people feel 5 monsters us a large pull, and some feel pulling everything up to the first impediment is a large pull. Some tanks are ok with wipes, and others despise it.

what i am trying to say is even among experienced tanks their is a large variation in how they approach executing their job. Someone who plays with controller may consider how difficult it is to target specific monsters into their own acceptable pull size.

[Beki_Bayaqad]

As he stated, it was in a Discord group, meaning it wasn't in the duty finder - it was people using voice chat in discord (I'm going to guess a FC). Also I would like to clarify, as I did with earlier posts - if the tank is new to the dungeon, or is new to the class I see no problem with small pulls. However, once you get to 70, you should really, really, be able to do the most basics of your class.

From what I read his discord had the debate after they called in a replacement on the discord to fill in for a newbie tank that wouldn't mass pull for them from more then likely a roulette. So it wasn't an inter-discord debate among friends, it was people debating the merits of kicking someone who's not comfortable with the demands of the party for someone who'll do it.

[Tlachtga]

Also, its not always not knowing your class, its sometimes the comfort of how you want to play. Some people prefer a relaxed pace, and some prefer a fast pace.

These are not mutually exclusive.

I think its unfair to expect high synergy at the most casual of group content (duty finder dungeons)

It's not "high synergy", it's basic competence.

If you're doing 70 dungeons while decently geared and you're not pulling everything, you're being lazy.

[Physic]

These are not mutually exclusive.



It's not "high synergy", it's basic competence.

If you're doing 70 dungeons while decently geared and you're not pulling everything, you're being lazy.

you are wrong or over simplifying.


"decently geared" what does that mean? max stat cap? minimum stat cap?

also, what are you fighting? i have played with experienced tanks, where some one has died or wiped due to pulling too large. We were fine with it because we know each other, but its simply not true that every tank can pull everything available with any healer class and survive or effectively hold hate.

for one thing, if your pull is too large, depending on your aoe hate tool, monsters will walk out of range.

And a style choice on how many monsters to pull can not be considered basic competence. basic competence means what will lead to success with average difficulty, not what is the optimal time attack method of play.