Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Physic]

Yeah, I ain't buying that.

I main all 3 healers, and I've never had a tank make large pulls and had to say "Hey buddy, slow down, that's too much." except in lower level dungeons (like below level 30) where the group doesn't have much AOE damage going on.

Tanks should be able to easily handle large pulls at high levels if they know what they are doing.
In the level 70 content I expect the tank to have an idea (as long as they aren't new to the dungeon) on how much they can handle, and not slap me with constant 4 enemy pulls.

When you pull less it means everyones DPS is worth less.



This I can understand. Tanks that are new to dungeons/new to tanking obviously shouldn't charge ahead.

the tank is the one who knows the limits of thier own abilities. Just because some tanks are capable of large pulls does not mean all are. Also, just because the healer thinks he can heal it, doesnt mean he can.

ultimately i would say, its a combination of tank and healer that should decide the pace.


Regardless imo, its bad form to kick players for such a difference in opinion. No one is entitled to control another player legitimately attempting to play. Party find and premake your groups if you expect that high an amount of synergy as the minimum acceptable.

[Hash_Browns]

the tank is the one who knows the limits of thier own abilities. Just because some tanks are capable of large pulls does not mean all are. Also, just because the healer thinks he can heal it, doesnt mean he can.

ultimately i would say, its a combination of tank and healer that should decide the pace.


Regardless imo, its bad form to kick players for such a difference in opinion. No one is entitled to control another player legitimately attempting to play. Party find and premake your groups if you expect that high an amount of synergy as the minimum acceptable.

I thought that was what we were talking about?
Considering the OP opened with "Earlier today within discord a group of us got into an disagreement".

If a tank can't pull in a premade, they are gonna get kicked, just as DPS who don't do damage, or healers who can't multi-task damage/healing do.

If you enter level 70 duties, and don't know your class, or how it works - expect people to get mad at the very least.

[Physic]

I thought that was what we were talking about?
Considering the OP opened with "Earlier today within discord a group of us got into an disagreement".

If a tank can't pull in a premade, they are gonna get kicked, just as DPS who don't do damage, or healers who can't multi-task damage/healing do.

If you enter level 70 duties, and don't know your class, or how it works - expect people to get mad at the very least.

if it was a party finder or premade i doubt there would be much debate.

its probably a duty finder, as people rarely use partyfinder for dungeons.

also level 70 duties are not what i would consider, high bar content. You can level to 70 without knowing every aspect of your class, and definitely not every aspect of each dungeon. Even when its bad, its not that bad as well.

Also, its not always not knowing your class, its sometimes the comfort of how you want to play. Some people prefer a relaxed pace, and some prefer a fast pace. I think its unfair to expect high synergy at the most casual of group content (duty finder dungeons)

[Awha]

I relish in attempting to pull aggro off of tanks who do single-pulls despite them and the healer being more than geared enough to handle the incoming damage.
As a tank main I actually wince harder when I see it because I understand how inept they really are. At the bare minimum all you're expected to do is mash one button + a couple of cooldowns.
Of course there's multiple factors in play, I understand if someone who's new to tanking isn't very confident at 50, and I'll respect that. But if you're pulling this stunt in Expert Roulette and have multiple max level jobs you're just disrespecting the time of 3 other people.

Overall I agree with you, the new part is where I slightly differ, I do feel that is a group is encouraging the player to step out their comfort zone, and to simply try but they refuse to try due to shyness or fear of failure, or simply because they are new to the game then I would question their actions. If that makes sense, I do feel even newer tanks should try and do larger pulls if the group is telling them to do so. Sure it may end in a wipe, but without trying they will never know.

[Physic]

Overall I agree with you, the new part is where I slightly differ, I do feel that is a group is encouraging the player to step out their comfort zone, and to simply try but they refuse to try due to shyness or fear of failure, or simply because they are new to the game then I would question their actions. If that makes sense, I do feel even newer tanks should try and do larger pulls if the group is telling them to do so. Sure it may end in a wipe, but without trying they will never know.

its not really encouragement if it ends with a kick. Its basically a demand. While it might be a good idea, or a valid suggestion, its not a fair requirement. When they kick a player there are essentially reseting his progress, this should not be done lightly,

[Insertcoins]

Noone is right or wrong yet everyone is right and wrong. what I mean is no the tank doesn't get different treatment unless he or she does. If the other 3 want what the tank wants then kool, if not and 3 other people want something different then the tank is wrong. Numbers and all that, now the question to ask would be is it FAIR.

[Mikki]

The tank has the right to pull as they please and if the group dislikes it, they also have the right to kick them from the party. People will play how they want and there's nothing wrong with that.

No one really gets more "entitlement" than the other, it's just that it may be easier for the tank to do what they want vs the group and the wait for another tank may be ridiculous. Generally, majority rules but if the tank is uncomfortable with pulling that much then that's how it goes. Suck it up or kick them. It does little to argue who is in the "right" when it won't change the fact that people will do as they want.

This is why I have a tank friend who I play with, though. With upcoming trusts, it may be even better. Perhaps it'll be less of a hit to kick a bad or "incompatible" tank if you know that you can just turn to the trust system if the wait is too long.

[Legion88]

My 2 cent to this subject.

The tank sets the pace depending on the capability of the party.

And there are just 2 steps to estimate the capability of the party:
1) the gear check
2) the first big pull

If 1) is more then enough the tank should big pull.

If the first big pull takes ages to die the DDs should step up and start learning how to do damage properly.
If the first big pull ends in a wipe the healer has to step up and learn his ropes.

All this needs a tank properly holding enmity and using cooldowns when necessery.

[ReiMakoto]

Imo in level 70 content there is no reason not to just pull everything, the outgoing damage from pulls is so low that even as an undergeared healer healing an undergeared tank, i was still casting more holy than healing in big pulls.

[Mistyregions]

The tank, holds aggro so you can dps. That by defaults puts them at pace setting. If you want to go ahead a pull without the tank you are entitled to. Dont complain when a tank doesnt pull off of you. Lastly if a tank is "under pulling" not only is it their game too, but if you feel so strongly about it, nothing is stopping you from picking up a tank class and setting the pace. No one is obligated to speed run, tank in a way they dont feel comfortable so you can just play DPS. That's called being selfish.