More 8 man dungeons?

[Dualgunner]

Do you know any other dungeons 4 man, 8 man raids, trials or any other content that has unskippables so far? Don't worry, I'll wait for your answer. I didn't think you'd come up with one. Take the L.

Just because there aren't doesn't mean there can't be, or that any future 8 mans have to have them. Cape Westwind, the original 8 man instance in the game, has a very longwinded opening cutscene, but not every 8 man trial has the same length opening cutscene.

[Elkanah]

Just because there aren't doesn't mean there can't be, or that any future 8 mans have to have them.

If it's not a raid that has loot, it's gonna get some unskippable cutscenes. That's been made apparent after that whole fiasco of msq. Nobody wants that happening a second, third or fourth time. In past Tokyo interviews over the last couple years, they've already stated they're not doing any more 8 man dungeons for MSQ related content. Doesn't make sense for dungeons since we already have the 4 man. Raid is 8 man with loot for DF. Trials have 8 man with loot. Alliance is 24 man, so that's out of the question. So it comes back to only one possibility, which is MSQ with no loot (which means unskippable cutscenes again).

[Dualgunner]

If it's not a raid that has loot, it's gonna get some unskippable cutscenes. That's been made apparent after that whole fiasco of msq. Nobody wants that happening a second, third or fourth time. In past Tokyo interviews over the last couple years, they've already stated they're not doing any more 8 man dungeons for MSQ related content. Doesn't make sense for dungeons since we already have the 4 man. Raid is 8 man with loot for DF. Trials have 8 man with loot. Alliance is 24 man, so that's out of the question. So it comes back to only one possibility, which is MSQ with no loot (which means unskippable cutscenes again).

It really doesn't mean unskippable cutscenes again. There's nothing inherent about an 8 man dungeon besides being a dungeon that takes 8 people to do, and even regarding story in dungeons (4 man dungeons used to have long cutscenes during them--Toto Rak took a while introducing its final boss as an example. "But you can skip that cutscene!" You've been on this forum since 2014, you know very well that MSQ was skippable at one point too) they've been largely relegated to pre- and post-dungeon.

EDIT: Also there are plenty of 8 man trials with no loot. There are even 4 man trials with no loot. But no, it's impossible for them to vary it up at all.

[Ilan]

If it's not a raid that has loot, it's gonna get some unskippable cutscenes. That's been made apparent after that whole fiasco of msq. Nobody wants that happening a second, third or fourth time. In past Tokyo interviews over the last couple years, they've already stated they're not doing any more 8 man dungeons for MSQ related content. Doesn't make sense for dungeons since we already have the 4 man. Raid is 8 man with loot for DF. Trials have 8 man with loot. Alliance is 24 man, so that's out of the question. So it comes back to only one possibility, which is MSQ with no loot (which means unskippable cutscenes again).

If the dungeons are not part of the msq it doesn't need any long unskippable cutscenes. The msq just got it because people complained because others didn't wait for them when they watched the endless cutscenes, which were a major design error.
You are just assuming that they gonna get long cutscenes but we can all be very certain that SE won't be that stupid again.

[Elkanah]

If the dungeons are not part of the msq it doesn't need any long unskippable cutscenes. The msq just got it because people complained because others didn't wait for them when they watched the endless cutscenes, which were a major design error.
You are just assuming that they gonna get long cutscenes but we can all be very certain that SE won't be that stupid again.

You assume they haven't done anything stupid before. Let me remind you of just a few:
Exhibit A: Diadem part I.
Exhibit B: Diadem part II.
Exhibit C: Eureka (which became essentially Diadem III).

Where is it that they weren't stupid to doing something again and again and again exactly? IT took 3 tries before they got something somewhat right (but still needs updates to hydatos. But don't think it'll matter anyways by then since we'll be working in ShB anyways). Let me also remind you that the devs just took a look at the current numbers of Eureka, which left backlash (into pagos and up) because of the way people did fate trains (and essentially tried to change this, an already working system for everyone and got trampled).

If you're assuming they wouldn't do something that stupid again, then you're incredibly naive a player. Don't drink the Koolaid just yet.

[linay]

Where is it that they weren't stupid to doing something again and again and again exactly?

As far as it relates to putting long cutscenes in the middle of a dungeon, they have not done it again. Making a new 8-man dungeon wouldn't suddenly make them want to put long cutscenes in it.

[Elkanah]

As far as it relates to putting long cutscenes in the middle of a dungeon, they have not done it again. Making a new 8-man dungeon wouldn't suddenly make them want to put long cutscenes in it.

As far as it relates, that's TWO they've done it to. And they've only been TWO dungeons both related to MSQ, and had no loot in them. So we're 2/2 so far.

To re-iterate, as some of you seem to not bother reading through the forum, I'll re-post it every time someone comes in and doesnt bother to read the forums through its whole (cause lazy people).

4 man dungeons is set as is. They also have loot in them.
8 Man trials/extreme content are loot-able. So this is out of the question.
8 man raids also are out since it has loot in them. So also out of the question.
24 man raids for obvious reasons.

As someone stated earlier in the this forum, anything 8 man at that point would be a trial or raid, which we already have. So there'd be no point in this design this late into the game. And squeenix wanting to change the whole "don't fix what isn't broken" mechanic, seems to be what they've been about since 2.0, considering we've been asking for quite a LOT of things in this game, and still haven't bothered to touch those up yet either. I don't even want to begin how trash filled the jobs skills and rotations are in this game after heavensward (where pld and drk are piss poor) leading into stormblood. All these things come back to the only thing possible, which is 8 man MSQ, which they've already stated in past interviews they will not do again due to feedback during 2.x regarding this narrative. The ONLY place I can SEE this being even remotely possible, is an 8 man Deep dungeon crawler. It doesn't have loot in it, but can expand (with harder challenging floors) to make up for it. But outside of that, I highly doubt they'd input this suggestion in the future.

[Dualgunner]

As far as it relates, that's TWO they've done it to. And they've only been TWO dungeons both related to MSQ, and had no loot in them. So we're 2/2 so far.

Because 2 is such an ample data set to draw patterns and conclusions from with 100% certainty.

To re-iterate, as some of you seem to not bother reading through the forum, I'll re-post it every time someone comes in and doesnt bother to read the forums through its whole (cause lazy people).

You mean you'll just say it over and over and hope it will somehow make your assertions fact.

4 man dungeons is set as is. They also have loot in them.

Worthless loot 9/10 that nobody cares about. And that 1/10 is the dungeon that happens to have gear at Ultimate's iLv cap.

8 Man trials/extreme content are loot-able. So this is out of the question.

What about the 8 man trials that don't have loot? The 4 man trials that don't have loot? The 4 man trials that do have loot? You're talking as if the amount of people that can go into a type of content determines the kind of loot it can have, when it's very blatant that it doesn't.

8 man raids also are out since it has loot in them. So also out of the question.

Back in Coil days, a raid was itself basically an 8 man dungeon, just with a lot more teeth than dungeons at the time (which themselves had more teeth than modern dungeons.)

24 man raids for obvious reasons.

Basically 24 man dungeons. But by your logic, 24 people dungeons should have 3x the cutscenes an 8 man dungeon has. For...reasons!

All these things come back to the only thing possible, which is 8 man MSQ, which they've already stated in past interviews they will not do again due to feedback during 2.x regarding this narrative.

How...how on earth does any of that relate to back to your assertion "They'll only ever do 8 man MSQ and it must have long unskippable cutscenes!" "It'll have to be a raid/trial" doesn't; "don't fix what ain't broke" doesn't; job rotations sure as hell don't. The only thing that remotely comes close is "Considering we've been asking for a lot of things" and that translates out to "I didn't get what I want, so screw what you want we're sticking to status quo."

As well, find that quote of the devs'. I know it exists, but we don't know if they were talking about the 8 man nature of the dungeon, or having long cutscenes in dungeons.

The ONLY place I can SEE this being even remotely possible, is an 8 man Deep dungeon crawler. It doesn't have loot in it, but can expand (with harder challenging floors) to make up for it. But outside of that, I highly doubt they'd input this suggestion in the future.

I also doubt it'd be implemented. As you alluded to earlier, most suggestions don't get implemented. I would still like to see more 8 man dungeons, however; 8 man deep dungeons would be neat, 8 man extreme versions of dungeons would be neat, 8 man savage versions of dungeons...it'd be a neat experiment.

[linay]

As far as it relates, that's TWO they've done it to. And they've only been TWO dungeons both related to MSQ, and had no loot in them. So we're 2/2 so far.

Are they not both 2.0 dungeons? If they are, then they're released together without having player feedback, so I would count that as 1 time unless they were released separately or they were in 1.0 previously.