Male Viera... Unsubbing for now.

[Physic]

Very much this. I remember first joining FFXIV because I constantly heard they didn't really do the typical "same armour on man is a bikini on women" type of thing, and that men could even be skimpy if they wanted. It goes much further than cosmetics (though that's certainly part of it) in that it's so obnoxiously typical of games to make the man a visual powerhouse and the woman some eye candy for the male players.

they have non powerhouse males, so why cant they have powerhouse males? fact is the large male race is roedegayn. Large powerful males are actually underepresented. Seems like you just dislike large bulky males, which is fine, but dont act like there is a riteous reason behind it. As for female viera, they are a pre existing race which has been in the game cannonicly since the beginning(i remember a cutscene with them in a parade ver 1) and thier appearance was defined since before the game. They are also only "eye candy" by certain cultures definition. they slim and are lanky, with non human feet. Whether that is considered eye candy is entirely personal. For many people eye candy is short curvy women.

[SomeRandomHuman]

they have non powerhouse males, so why cant they have powerhouse males? fact is the large male race is roedegayn. Large powerful males are actually underepresented. Seems like you just dislike large bulky males, which is fine, but dont act like there is a riteous reason behind it. As for female viera, they are a pre existing race which has been in the game cannonicly since the beginning(i remember a cutscene with them in a parade ver 1) and thier appearance was defined since before the game. They are also only "eye candy" by certain cultures definition. they slim and are lanky, with non human feet. Whether that is considered eye candy is entirely personal. For many people eye candy is short curvy women.

Roedadyn, Highlander, and au'ra are all very large and beefy(and furry roegadyns now). Miqo'te and Midlander are built but not outside of the "medium" range. Elezen is a little more lithe while still being kinda bulky. And lalafells are just fat chibis.

Big men aren't underrepresented. Slender and more lithe males are underrepresented. Only Elezen are remotely near that category of lithe

[ScarboroughFairy]

I would have release Male and Female Viera with 5.0 and release the Hrothgar with 5.2 by adding two new Areas to the Game and expanding the world.
If I could choose, I would have delayed it for 1-2 Months. While my System would not even require a real delay, just putting Ressources into adding 2 new Map Areas.
If we have Ressources to throw the new new Diadem at us every few Months, they will likely have the time, for 2 new Map Areas.

This even assuming you know what's planned for the entire expansion and the funds and resources that would need to go into resolving things like bugs and implementing hotfixes, right? Cosmetics will always be secondary/tertiary/quaternary in priority. If a game is really pretty, but plays terribly, and offers nothing interesting, I don't care how many augmentations I can have for a player. I didn't come to play dress up (majority of the time, at least, I know what the true endgame is), I'm trying to kill things.

Despite this Quote being over 20 Years old I still bevleiev Miyamoto was not wrong. “A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.”
I bet the first Version of Ocarina of Time was also great, but then they delayed it and it was a really great Game.

Not really seeing how the exclusion of the opposite gender for 2 races makes a game bad, though. This was the type of hyperbolic stuff I was talking about. Something that offers nothing to gameplay gets added not the way people wanted in its entirety and now the entire game is bad? That's...shallow.

The Point about starving for new Content.
That is right, but the people are starving for something new which also can be other new Content.
The Problem is, that we always knew what the Devs do next and they can't surprise us, because they follow their Formula like it is a national Law.
They Players know, how the whole Structure of 5.0 will look like.
They know how the Endgame will look like.
They know how many Primals we get in the Story.
They know how many Dungeons they get.
They know so many things already, that this feeling of "New Content" will be gone in a week.
Because after finishing the Story, they will go back to what they did for the last 5 Years.

Perhaps the scheduling and release of the new content is a tried and true formula, but the gameplay is what makes the game. "How will it play?" is the most important. This is why I throw my hat in with the people who predict the people up and leaving over this will definitely be back for 5.0.

[aevic]

Lol yeah that's the point, you're paying for the game you're entitled to a good product, if that product doesn't meet your standards you have the right to complain and stop spending money on it...

What part of the product isn't meeting your standards? The game is running and has plenty of content for you to enjoy. If they had never announced viera you would still be playing. Grow up. The entitlement is showing.

[Imuka]

This is one of those things where I think it should be pointed out that devs, in any videogame franchise, don't typically sit around and wait for players to tell them what should the focus their resources on. Some of that stuff was planned out months or even years before players start clamoring about what they'd like to see next. Some of that stuff takes a higher priority than the addition of something that would chew up more time than something that would offer more to the experience in terms of gameplay, bar the flavorful stuff you can experience from the dialogue in the story.

Of course they do not sit around all day and wait for the Community telling them what to do.
But there is one Problem with the Game here. They invest in something without knowing if Players like it and completly dive into that Idea.
They started to make Diadem 1, but instead of waiting for the Feedback and how Players react to it, they started to make Diadem 2 already and later changed some minor things because of the Feedback they got...which was very very bad.

Eureka was the same Show. 18 Months for an Idea, that was called horrible Months before they started to make Eureka.
No wonder the Feedback was more positive than they expected it to be...because a large Part of the Community hated Diadem.

Many people demanded more entertaining Gameplay in the Dungeons, not hose Levels with the Tank pulling as much as possible till he/she hits a wall and then the Mobs do so little Damage that it feels so easy, that everybody who plays the Game feels unchallenged.

And sometimes they should listen what the Players wish for, instead of trying to follow some Trends.
The most Players demanded a WoW like PvP. 2 Sides, one Attacker one Defender or 2 Teams and flags like in Battlefield.
Instead we got a overcomplicated Moba PvP, with people so busy doing stuff, that there was never really time to enjoy the Combat.
People wished for a Minion Game like Pokemon and instead got some weird other Game, that again felt like it was inspired by some Moba like Mobile Game.

And now nearly nobody plays Astralagos or Lord of Verminion. So all this work was wasted.

[Physic]

Some are putting some overdaramatic into it, but not all. ^^
But there is a reason why some react the way, the react.

Because like some said. On the one side the Devs said "We did not had free Ressources for male Viera.", but on the other Hand, they had Ressources for a complete different Race.
Some react to this, because of SE and the Devs constantly saying that the Game grows and they have more Money for more Content, but then they always mention ressource Limits.
They put more Cosmetics into the Mog Station and less into Events, but it feels like they now work on a even smaller Budget.
Then, when there is a large demand, they talk about limitations of ressources, but then later announce something that ate up even more Ressources that nobody asked for.
I remember how Diadem 1 failed and how people went to the "pls make the Dungeons more interessting. Diadem was horrible, please focus on good Parts of the Game to make them better.".





Eureka was a large dissapointment for a lot of Players.
Some Classes that played like a mess.
Streamlining all over the place, to make the Classes easier for no real reason. Some classes feel very lackluster now.
Turning Savage down to Midtier Content, because people wanted Midtier Content, but the Devs had no Idea what to deliver, so they made Savage easier.
Something that made nobody happy. The Raiders steamroll it and for the Midcore Player...they never wanted Savage to be Midcore.
The Bluemage was desined with no brain. "Make a Singleplayer class, that later requires other Players to get the Skills...and it felt like playing a Gacha. RNG everywhere.".

They are not unsubbing only because of the male Viera. They are unsubbing, because they feel like the Devs just do what they like and whatever the Community wishes, gets thrown right into the Trash.
And to Quote the Devs "1. Never forget the fand > without them, there would be no "us".
Nobody wished for Diadem 2, but we still got it and Yoshis only reaction to the Diadem BIS Weapon Topic was "Calm down people...".
Nobody expected him to apologize for that, but he could at least aknowledge, that the Idea was not that great and not tell the people to "Calm down." and then tell them, why their Opinion is wrong.

why is having a male vierra superior to having a male hrothgar. In reality hrothgar is breaking more new ground in terms of charachter variety than vierra. Also resources is a major consideration for all content, And i think race is substantially more costly(keep in mind all old armor and new armor must be adjusted for each race), and less neccessary for a game, than developing new game mechanics/events. Like diadem, not to say diadem was a success, but they have to attempt to make new interesting combat related content.

[Senliten]

Saying someone is being sexist or homophobic is not an insult, its a criticism, you can choose to ignore or look into . But uh yeah, the fact that you view that purely as an insult instead of someone might be calling you that possibly for a reason, might be an issue.

Bullshit, if you can't back the claim up due to how loaded those terms are, then it is not criticism and it is flat out insulting. Show us where this sexism is? With unbiased, logical, and critical thinking taken into mass account.

[Villa101]

Bullshit, if you can't back the claim up due to how loaded those terms are, then it is not criticism and it is flat out insulting. Show us where this sexism is? With unbiased, logical, and critical thinking taken into mass account.

Sure

The women locked race is sexy lingerie ladies and the dude locked race are giant power fantasy muscle dudes. And that plays into "gender norms", only serve to eliminate options for those people who want to express themselves in game who might not fall in these gender norms. Like say a tall lithe sexy lingerie man bunny. Or a Giant hulking muscley lion lady.

So that's where it is

Those terms are criticism and meant to inspire introspection, you purely taking it as an insult and not a claim that is made because of an issue. Is a problem

[Senliten]

Sure

The women locked race is sexy lingerie ladies and the dude locked race are giant power fantasy muscle dudes. And that plays into "gender norms", only serve to eliminate options for those people who want to express themselves in game who might not fall in these gender norms. Like say a tall lithe sexy lingerie man bunny. Or a Giant hulking muscley lion lady.

So that's where it is

Those terms are criticism and meant to inspire introspection, you purely taking it as an insult and not a claim that is made because of an issue. Is a problem

And why do you think it even is about 'gender norms'? Like others have mentioned, it can easily be trying to appease to two bases with what development time possible, where do you and everyone else claiming these 'gender norm' 'power fantasy' introverted thought processes come to just this one conclusion?

Using loaded terms for introspection is still not criticism, you can in fact, avoid using those words and still provide an adequate response. Those two terms are nothing more than agenda pushers and only serve to divide and harm.


Honestly, everyone that hates these announcements cling to this one thing, just this one bloody thing, and fail to even see the possibility or other rationales. I do hope you can see that, but I sincerely doubt it.

[ScarboroughFairy]

Of course they do not sit around all day and wait for the Community telling them what to do.
But there is one Problem with the Game here. They invest in something without knowing if Players like it and completly dive into that Idea.

Literally every developer does this.

They started to make Diadem 1, but instead of waiting for the Feedback and how Players react to it, they started to make Diadem 2 already and later changed some minor things because of the Feedback they got...which was very very bad.

Like I stated previously, I can't comment on Diadem because I wasn't here for it.

And sometimes they should listen what the Players wish for, instead of trying to follow some Trends.

This reads like they never listen to their fanbase. DRK is getting a rework from the ground up (allegedly) due to the criticisms over the DA spam involved in its kit. DRG, SCH, BLM, SMN, and WAR got fixes this expansion. Were they all perfect fixes? No. Did they make the jobs more satisfying to play for the time being while they planned out an overhaul? Yes. And the Ultimate trials. Ultimate Bahamut turned out to be a massive hit despite a tiny percentage of the playerbase actually participating in them. They came back to give players UWU some months down the line.

The most Players demanded a WoW like PvP. 2 Sides, one Attacker one Defender or 2 Teams and flags like in Battlefield.
Instead we got a overcomplicated Moba PvP, with people so busy doing stuff, that there was never really time to enjoy the Combat.
People wished for a Minion Game like Pokemon and instead got some weird other Game, that again felt like it was inspired by some Moba like Mobile Game.

You forgot that PvP was an afterthought, they admitted. Would I like a better PvP system? Hell yeah, I think that'd be really fun, but PvP isn't my main focus for the game.

And now nearly nobody plays Astralagos or Lord of Verminion. So all this work was wasted.

Sweeping generalization there. Not a particularly overwhelming number of people play those modes, but people still enjoy them. I'm going to have to digress here, as my question was initially why people picked now to unsub after getting what they asked for, though not in its entirety, after we had 4 years of nothing at all. It is a tantrum. A tantrum thrown even after the devs warned us 6 years ago that the implementation of Viera might have to be genderlocked.