Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

[Kuroka]

Recall how JP in FFXIV quite reliably do duty finder runs for savage raids and extreme primals. We have macros with very little deviation from the common strategy.

Ahahha

I wished i was there, here we dont even manage to set for one strat for primals, its nice... like you always got that one group having a different strat, or opposite...

Last time i or anyone i know used DF or RF for stuff and actually got working groups was during Sophia ex lol
i miss that... but ppl refuse, it has to be PF and with their rules and got forbit double jobs.... >_>

I envy you, every time i wanna try and get randoms, its pointless as all just gave in and do it with discord, wasting MORE time waiting for it and maybe even still wiping then when just doing it and relevel >_>

[Xellos2099]

Or ppl that just dont wanna waste time on organizing things that arent ment to be organized and would rather enjoy having random fun... lol

If people truly want random fun, i would have aeen a lot more go in when there are no raid group around

[Tsumdere]

I've given up. Would love to do BA, but sitting in the discord for hours waiting for group while not being able to do anything else is not fun. I still wonder how dev sit there and think "restrictive entry requirements will be a great idea!"

I would stick with it. What I personally do is read, draw, or do some content in game like craft, hunt, or even more Eureka while I wait. BA is lots of fun and WAY more fun with the premades who are super helpful and nice, rather than hopping in with some randoms who will spit in your eye for being a newbie and will wipe you in the first trash pull (yes, this happened to me).

That being said - SE just make it a DF queue already. No one likes the entrance requirements.

I see a lot of negative comments from NA/EU/Au/Nz, (much more than the JP and non-JP from Gaia) it's fine to dislike things, but is it really that difficult to cooperate with most of your data centre without forming premades?

On Aether we are starting to have people try to make Onvi and the support fate fail just to spite premades. Last night, I also saw someone trying to get people to report the premade for using 3rd party software to cheat. As in... claiming that Discord was cheating. So yeah... apparently it is very difficult for everyone but Gaia to cooperate. People are kicking and screaming the moment they catch wind of the 'evil, toxic' premades.

[Epidendrum]

I would stick with it. What I personally do is read, draw, or do some content in game like craft, hunt, or even more Eureka while I wait. BA is lots of fun and WAY more fun with the premades who are super helpful and nice, rather than hopping in with some randoms who will spit in your eye for being a newbie and will wipe you in the first trash pull (yes, this happened to me).

That being said - SE just make it a DF queue already. No one likes the entrance requirements.



On Aether we are starting to have people try to make Onvi and the support fate fail just to spite premades. Last night, I also saw someone trying to get people to report the premade for using 3rd party software to cheat. As in... claiming that Discord was cheating. So yeah... apparently it is very difficult for everyone but Gaia to cooperate. People are kicking and screaming the moment they catch wind of the 'evil, toxic' premades.

I'm starting to wonder, take away voice chat (discord etc.), call outs for mechanics, large premade groups, but have a common fixed strategy that the entire data centre obeys without question. Everyone goes in knowing the fight, those new to it have at least read or watched a guide. Experienced players re-emphasize important mechanics. The more players clear it (many players on Gaia don't just clear the arsenal once, some have cleared upwards of 7 times), the larger the pool of competent players for that specific piece of content. It's so ironic, my first FC leader (a Japanese lady who has since stopped playing - yes I met her in real life when I was in Japan for work) briefed me about the culture of the server and data centre and quoted an important saying from America "a rising tide lifts all boats", with that she reminded me to be civil and always try to look out for your FC/LS/friends/Server/Data centre in roughly that order. Why is a premade needed in NA/EU to succeed? Don't most random players want to be civil to their community even if it's someone they will never meet again? Don't people realise that if they help someone to succeed, it increases the number of players who have cleared content and will repeat it, thus going on to help others, and foster goodwill among players as a whole?

Yes, a premade where members know the fight will increase the chance of success, but with a proper culture of mentorship and sense of duty to the community, pure random groups have a decent chance to clear any content as well. Do people there need a premade to feel that sense of duty? Don't you feel a sense of obligation to your server mates and data centre players? As an Asian, reading descriptions of the kind of behaviour mentioned by many in this thread, has reaffirmed my decision in the past to stop playing on NA/EU servers in online games. The thought is so alien that despite a common goal, there's a community that cannot cooperate without a premade structure.

[Xellos2099]

I'm starting to wonder, take away voice chat (discord etc.), call outs for mechanics, large premade groups, but have a common fixed strategy that the entire data centre obeys without question. Everyone goes in knowing the fight, those new to it have at least read or watched a guide. Experienced players re-emphasize important mechanics. The more players clear it (many players on Gaia don't just clear the arsenal once, some have cleared upwards of 7 times), the larger the pool of competent players for that specific piece of content. It's so ironic, my first FC leader (a Japanese lady who has since stopped playing - yes I met her in real life when I was in Japan for work) briefed me about the culture of the server and data centre and quoted an important saying from America "a rising tide lifts all boats", with that she reminded me to be civil and always try to look out for your FC/LS/friends/Server/Data centre in roughly that order. Why is a premade needed in NA/EU to succeed? Don't most random players want to be civil to their community even if it's someone they will never meet again? Don't people realise that if they help someone to succeed, it increases the number of players who have cleared content and will repeat it, thus going on to help others, and foster goodwill among players as a whole?

Yes, a premade where members know the fight will increase the chance of success, but with a proper culture of mentorship and sense of duty to the community, pure random groups have a decent chance to clear any content as well. Do people there need a premade to feel that sense of duty? Don't you feel a sense of obligation to your server mates and data centre players? As an Asian, reading descriptions of the kind of behaviour mentioned by many in this thread, has reaffirmed my decision in the past to stop playing on NA/EU servers in online games.

The thing is... no one is stopping the random group from joining the discord. It is not like we are a group of static players. Sure, there are some people who only do ozma clear/reclear but I also see plenty of people doing learning pt everyday. Let put it this way, it seems the only reason not to do pre-made with random pug is the issue with ideology...he fixation on party must be form after killing ufo. You have no idea on how many time i have see people kill ufo but no one went in since no BA group is there. And no, there is zero obligation to help people who do not wish to get help from people. Help and tools are there, discord, if they choose not to take it to get help, there is nothing anyone can do.

[Epidendrum]

The thing is... no one is stopping the random group from joining the discord. It is not like we are a group of static players. Sure, there are some people who only do ozma clear/reclear but I also see plenty of people doing learning pt everyday. Let put it this way, it seems the only reason not to do pre-made with random pug is the issue with ideology...he fixation on party must be form after killing ufo. You have no idea on how many time i have see people kill ufo but no one went in since no BA group is there. And no, there is zero obligation to help people who do not wish to get help from people. Help and tools are there, discord, if they choose not to take it to get help, there is nothing anyone can do.

Here on Gaia, parties have never failed to form after an Ovni kill. Getting 56 people into the same instance is rather difficult, ensuring these 56 get to the portals adds another layer of difficulty. That is why, we avoid such situations. We can count on players to have: (1) basic competency to perform rotations, (2) attempting to perform mechanics, or at the very least (3) recognising that every person reaching the end counts, thus they want the group to succeed, because as an individual they want to succeed.

Players new to the arsenal can go in safely, knowing that in a pure PUG, there definitely will be people willing to mentor. Or at the very least someone will go to our usual source and copy+paste the JP macro for all to see. That is a given.

Premades here on Gaia have a different approach. Getting people into the arsenal is never an issue. The issue would likely be insufficient tanks and/or healers. So the premades I have met, are as such: 1 group 8, 4 healers, 4 tanks. Must be able to execute all mechanics in the arsenal as your role (tank, healer only), be willing to mentor random players, and have multiple clears in order to join their discord. Inside the arsenal, they split up and lead individual parties. Getting 8 people into the arsenal together is a lot easier than getting 48 or 56.

Most runs will be PUGs, so sometimes we will have insufficient tanks and/or healers. The expectation is usually to stop before absolute virtue, just gathering from chests. no argument there. People are happy with this, expectations are set early on.

Xellos, perhaps I was unclear. I will clarify my queries. Without the discord groups in NA/EU, why can't NA/EU have the same success that Gaia/Mana has with pure PUG groups for the arsenal? What is stopping them from doing so? Why are only discord groups in NA/EU successfully clearing the arsenal but PUG groups are failing?

[Rhus]

Numbers for sure. First attempt at forming inside we got about 21 people (2 parties and a couple people floating) then 6 and 7 people in my next 2 attempts so not even enough for 1 full party.
Also a mindset thing I'd say. Too many people sit outside and pass judgement on those who pug it with comments like "we barely cleared with a full 56 and on discord, you're attempting it with 20/30 and no discord..I give it 10 minutes and they'll be out" which leads to people thinking we can't clear it without being in a premade and anything else is futile.

[ltsquigs]

Why is only discord groups in NA/EU are successfully clearing the arsenal but PUG groups are failing?

PUG Groups of large sizes are essentially not happening. This is in part because enough people have bought into the discord system that the pool of people who want to do PUG groups without discord is lower than it would be, and because many people have simply left Hydatos after they get their weapon/armor. Either because they have no interest in the content, or they find the contention around the content to not be worth the trouble and would just rather not bother than fight people over it.

[Epidendrum]

PUG Groups of large sizes are essentially not happening. This is in part because enough people have bought into the discord system that the pool of people who want to do PUG groups without discord is lower than it would be, and because many people have simply left Hydatos after they get their weapon/armor. Either because they have no interest in the content, or they find the contention around the content to not be worth the trouble and would just rather not bother than fight people over it.

I see. ltsquigs, thank you for taking the time to share your pespective.

[Stanelis]

PUG Groups of large sizes are essentially not happening. This is in part because enough people have bought into the discord system that the pool of people who want to do PUG groups without discord is lower than it would be, and because many people have simply left Hydatos after they get their weapon/armor. Either because they have no interest in the content, or they find the contention around the content to not be worth the trouble and would just rather not bother than fight people over it.

PUG groups didn't happen even before discord were established. That s why discords were built in the first place.

I really don't get how people can expect to run 48 men raids without a minimal amount of organization.