Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

[Lacan]

if they have something to remove a challenge, then where's the challenge?

well, if the item was really rare and precious I don't think it'd entirely remove the challenge. Put it in gold bunny chests or something. Then you'd just have it in your pocket as a trump card to save a really awful run if need be.

[Epidendrum]

I had a private discussion with some colleagues yesterday, who have played in the NA/EU servers about it. One of the spoke about the difficulty of getting people to perform meteors and acceleration bombs correctly and likened it to his weekly party finder runs for savage. He asks for "blue and above" and gets all kinds of people in his party. I said that while I don't use any tools; in Gaia's duty finder runs for savage, "grey and green" are perfectly fine and have been for months. He dropped his jaw in shock.

First I reminded him that Gaia/Mana duty finder does not imply better skill. I replied that "grey" while queuing for savage duty finder in Gaia means that they can be counted to execute all mechanics flawlessly. The issue would be probably be dps uptime and rotation optimisation. However, with the completion of the Eureka weapon relic step, most players are in full i400. Hence, as long as the mechanical execution is flawless, "grey" is more than sufficient for a clear, and has been for a couple of months. JP macro strategies emphasize safety, margin of error, ease of understanding. Speed, or squeezing out the last GCD of damage are discarded. My colleague kept quiet for a seconds, sipped his coffee and quipped that in NA/EU, "grey" generally implies some problems with mechanical execution.

I think some players on reddit and other discussion platforms have pointed out what I've been reiterating, JP players are not more skilled. NA/EU have probably much better ways of maximising DPS. However, a poor optimiser ("grey") in Gaia who regularly pugs savage will have practiced enough to flawlessly execute the mechanics of O9S - O12S. All the while I thought it was the same for NA/EU, it was a culture shock to hear it is not the case.

Moving the topic back to the arsenal, I mentioned that it was similar for this content. These same players, especially during the Ozma fight can be seen contributing in a different way - acceleration bomb is coming, the sound goes off and the clustered group on the front left of the platform and the tank on the right, all shift slightly behind (to avoid using their own auto attacks) and freeze. Even if you are 100% sure acceleration bomb is not on you, you will freeze for the sake of the group. For that short few seconds, the entire raid dps drops to zero. This is a key example of playing it safe.

Meteors is another example. Markers come down, the cluster group on the left will stop all dps entirely and start to spread apart ever so slightly. Suddenly the meteor marked players jump and start sprinting. It becomes apparent the players with the meteors didn't even know the marker was on them, but this small step, a willingness to take the dps loss prevents a wipe. Similarly, Ozmashades, Ozma's mourning star or flare star and handled by taking a dps loss and performing slightly preemptive movement. My colleague drank more of his coffee and said, the loss of uptime like that will lead to more enrages. He shook his head and said uptime is the most important thing.

I nodded and said yes I have seen a lot of enrages for Ozma. Last week I had mostly 12-15% Ozma enrages. So far for this week, it's 6-9% enrages. More and more players have fully geared elemental bonuses. Playing it safe lets everyone practice mechanics. I concluded that NA/EU data centres seems to prioritise uptime, maximising every GCD. JP data centres prioritise safety, flawless mechanical execution, dropping dps to zero to execute mechanics is acceptable. Of course when both sides execute things correctly, NA/EU will be faster.

My colleague nodded and agreed with that point and said he never realised that "grey" in savage meant something so different across an ocean, and also understood more about why pugging in JP data centres results in clears eventually, but NA/EU wants their clear now, not later, so dps uptime is paramount. I just shrugged.

[Deceptus]

My colleague drank more of his coffee and said, the loss of uptime like that will lead to more enrages. He shook his head and said uptime is the most important thing.

My colleague nodded and agreed with that point and said he never realised that "grey" in savage meant something so different across an ocean, and also understood more about why pugging in JP data centres results in clears eventually, but NA/EU wants their clear now, not later, so dps uptime is paramount. I just shrugged.

See the 2nd part of my sig.

[Rockette]

I'm not sure what continuously pointing out cultural differences between the data centres is doing to help any situation.

We are not "the West" or NA/EU like Japan is Japanese.

We are Aus/NZ/Oceania, USA/Canada/Brazil/South America, France/Germany/England etc etc etc. There are widely different styles of language and culture at force here.

Our servers are a hodgepodge pot of many people and differences in game play. As what happens in real life, people in the same countries find each other to play within similar time zones. People who speak French are (generally) going to group with others who speak French. English players are going to get annoyed when non-English speakers join their groups and can't understand the strategy. Just like on Tonberry, the Japanese want to play with the Japanese and just like the rest of us, that data centre is at war for portals.

Just saying something is a simple as Your Servers vs Japanese is short sighted.

The thing Square forgot when implementing this content is that, the servers that aren't Japanese are of vastly different people's and time zones. People want to do content with their friends, the same way like we progress every single other content. Japan has a pug culture where everyone speaks the same language, is on at the same time, and have the same mind set, obeys Japanese macros.

We do not.

Even the culture and conduct between Aether and Primal parties are different beasts.

[ltsquigs]

If you don't mind me asking, where do the JP players share/find the macros used for content? I would love to see more examples than the BA one to model things on.

[Epidendrum]

If you don't mind me asking, where do the JP players share/find the macros used for content? I would love to see more examples than the BA one to model things on.

I'm hesitant to reply because my more recent posts seem to have been taken out of context and seen in a negative light. About Rockette's words above, yes every server is a hodgepodge of diffierent cultures. I come from Alexander, we have players from India, Singapore, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Philippines, Russia (Vladivostok), Canada and Mexico, we stretch across many time zones and have large variances in culture too. It's hurtful that Rockette's words seem to imply that my earlier comments didn't take culture and time zones into consideration. However despite differences in culture and time zones, we are all fluent Japanese speakers, and we have an identity as members of Alexander server, Gaia DC. Personally I'm an ethnic Chinese Singaporean, fluent in English, Chinese, Indonesian, Japanese and German. My culture is significantly different from the Japanese (whatever similarities there are, the reasons behind it are different), I just happen to be fortunate enough to have to travel around a fair bit for my work. My intention was to share techniques used in my server and DC to handle certain problematic mechanics (e.g. acceleration bomb killing many players on a platform due to poor execution), so that if nothing else, they remember that one thing and maybe it saves their arsenal run. As I said, it was taken out of context, but this is the internet - people are free to interpret my words as they wish. After years of playing FFXIV, I decided to join the English forums to share since most information that NA/EU gets about JP servers is from Tonberry/Elemental and they don't seem to know much about Gaia or Mana, but I see now that it's my mistake and I should leave.

Sorry to digress, I'll answer your question. If you're talking about raids, we (Gaia data centre's Japanese speaking community, inclusive of the non-Japanese from many countries and time zones) generally have Pekolog's blog (http://pekoe1001.blog.shinobi.jp/) with detailed explanation for mechanics. Players convert them into macros. Other places we share:
(1) lodestone, probably the fastest place to get help and find strategies. It's the best thing since sliced bread for us. A lot of knowledge transmission is done here.
(2) twitter - us non-Japanese playing on JP servers, usually keep our twitter entirely in non-English as a platform to practice foreign languages, links to a new guide on Pekolog or someone's lodestone post are retweeted. Word gets around the community fast.
(3) ffxiv mobile companion app, LS members will remind us to check someone's twitter page for a retweet or that a certain website has been updated with guides for the latest content.
(4) Dopr.net's FFXIV guides, contains detailed information and guides on virtually all content in FFXIV to date ( https://www.dopr.net/ff14playguide ).

I'll include some examples of lodestone macro sharing below:
(i) Arsenal. (https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../blog/4038064/)
(ii) Omega raid. (https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../blog/3924606/)
(iii) Ultima weapon: Ultimate. (https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../blog/3827052/)

I hope this is what you are looking for, and will help you.

[Chiami]

After years of playing FFXIV, I decided to join the English forums to share since most information that NA/EU gets about JP servers is from Tonberry/Elemental and they don't seem to know much about Gaia or Mana, but I see now that it's my mistake and I should leave.

Please don't! Your posts have been extremely enlightening and a delight to read, being very well phrased and respectful. Unfortunately there will be always some people who might misinterpret, for a variety of reasons, but how to gain better understanding if not by communicating?

While for your general thoughts on the topic of BA, PUG or premade, and cultural differences in particuar, I found them extremely enlightening, and would like to contribute an observation or three of my own (while agreeing with many of the other things already stated by others here).

Comparing your description of things on Gaia with my own experiences as a German player on a NA server there seems to be a considerable difference in how the average player approaches the game. By and large a considerable chunk of the NA players seem to be at the core solo players who happen to play together with others. Team play, group effort, or even something like group harmony are near-alien concepts, all that matters is individual gain -- clearing an instance as fast as possible, getting the drop you are after, that's it, and doing it in whatever way you personally prefer. To encounter any sense of duty toward others, or the idea of "we are in this boat together", a desire to create a pleasant and enhancing experience for everyone in your team is... rare, at best (of course other players on NA servers might disagree here, I am just stating my own experiences and observations, ymmv).

Actually in all my years on Balmung I have NEVER heard anyone express such an idea as having a duty toward your datacenter/server, and any real group loyalty and sense of duty toward such is also... rare. The only times I ever see something remotely similar said about individual servers is when people make (mostly bad) jokes about Balmung being the server for ERP (cliché, cliché...), or the other way around "Balmungites" feeling some attachment to Balmung due to the RP/FC connections they have made there.

This general observation might also be related to another symptom of different attitudes, cultural differences: The sad fact that the mentor system on NA servers is famous to be a hotbed not of actual mentoring, but instead of people bickering or even trolling (and many I spoke with by now seeing anyone wearing the mentor crown not as someone to approach for advice but a sign of an inflated ego and bad attitude problems). Many people on NA servers seem to lack any desire to teach or to be taught, sad and baffling as this observation is to me. Actually there have been times when I offered polite suggestions during runs with PUGs when I saw someone struggling or lacking even most basic competence at their chosen job (let's say a level 70 WHM casting NOTHING but cure 1 and medica 2) and in return I was severely criticized for doing so, if not downright told "you don't pay my sub". A friend from the US told me later that many US people see any kind of unasked-for "advice" as talking down to them, belittling them, humiliating them in front of others etc., no matter how politely you phrase things (and tbh I was flabbergasted at the very idea -- but yay learning about cultural differences!).

Combining this lack of any teaching "spirit" unless people specifically sign up for it (like in those premades, I guess) with this difference of attitude making an Eureka instance essentially up to 144 solo players who happen to play next to each other it is easy to see (I think) why PUGs in BA can easily lead to disaster, and premades allow for a greater chance of success -- which is in the end all most people on NA servers seem to care about. When I mentioned in shout chat I would be interested in going in "just for fun", to see the place and learn a bit, even if it is obvious from the start we will wipe I was given the feeling of being an alien on the wrong planet ^^; I think it is enlightening that there are jokes going around on NA servers about alliance raids (24 man) meaning you have to play with a "23man debuff" -- the other players are not seen as part of your team, but an obstacle to your path to success. Now to more than double that to what is seen as a "55man debuff" (and in many cases lacking the inclination to "cleanse" that "debuff" through teaching while having some patience and team spirit) and it becomes clear why few people would want to PUG something like BA...

I noticed similar differences in attitude regarding any kind of "competing for resources", which is a real issue on NA servers whenever there is a limited resource (like in this case, portals). People are just not very willing to share, or react with nothing but a bit of disappointment and otherwise good cheer -- more likely there will be lots of rage from at least some. Add to that a considerable amount of -- sad as it is -- trolling and things can go bad very quickly when you create competition between players for such desired resources. I have seen people on Aether who will "snipe" portals as in they will go in and quickly out again for no other reason but to screw with premades, out of pure spite, malice, or the enjoyment of trolling (which makes me honestly very glad the ToS got a bit updated in that regard, to hopefully combat some of the worst behaviors seen on NA servers...). Just one or two trolls like that can really ruin group efforts FAST (we saw that with the EM missions in Diadem already).

It is great that BA seems to work like intended on JP servers, but given the considerable differences in play style and general attitude between JP servers (as I got it from reports like yours, and other people playing on JP servers) and what I observed on Aether makes me think that sadly this type of content is poorly suited for the NA audience in general except with the aid of such things as discord-organized premades, or some form of PF to organize groups, and even then it is... problematic.

Anyway, besides these my lengthy own observations and thoughts, thank you, Epidendrum, for sharing yours here. They brought me much food for thought and are a joy to read ^^

[Adrestia]

I wasn't exactly sure who to begin with quoting, because some of the opinions I'm responding to have been expressed repeatedly in this thread and others, so I'll just speak a bit more broadly.

This concept that NA servers lack players willing to teach is absolutely false
The NA servers are full of people who are willing to provide help to players of all skill levels. Whether it's novice network discussions about where the next quest is or how to AoE, or people in places like The Balance offering to take time out of their day to look over your parses and help you see your strengths and weaknesses, or the numerous content creators making text guides such as the one for BA or video guides for everything from dungeons to ultimate raids, these people deserve our appreciation.

More specifically, I can log onto the Aether BA Discord and be presented with links to guides, strategy images, chat channels full of people willing to explain mechanics, and LFG tools designed to get anyone who wants to into BA in a group appropriate to their level of experience. These people have set up a huge amount of infrastructure to make all our lives easier.

For people to post in threads like these about Glorious Japan and what a dumpster fire NA servers are is just incredibly unappreciative. Don't spread the idea that people aren't helpful because they don't define themselves by the number of super kawaii Japanese emoticons they post or how much they prattle on about the sacred duty of the mentor crown. There's an absolute litany of English-language help, created by "Western" players, many of whom are extremely nice and approachable. These people are working hard to increase the general competency level of the entire population of their datacenters so that we can all have less facepalm deaths and more fun.

What the NA servers lack is a broad culture of being willing to learn.
For many reasons, a number of them asinine, the overall population of the NA servers is, as you said, solo players who happen to be in the same world as others. They aren't thinking about bringing themselves up to a competency level that makes the experience of playing on these servers better for everyone. They are thinking solely of their own gameplay experience and not how it affects those around them.

I won't claim that the reason for these differences is based on a culture defined by nationality. As a poster above mentioned, the servers located in Japan are geographically the best-located servers for people from dozens of disparate real-world cultures. There is absolutely no reason to sit here and espouse how great Japan is and how terrible the rest of the world is unless you're looking for hi5s from other people in the same echo chamber. People all over the world have something to offer, and areas to improve. I believe that the current state (read as: low skill level and high selfishness of a large portion of the population) of the NA servers is attributable primarily to socialization within Eorzea and the other online worlds we've shared. Although as I said above there are many amazing people working to the benefit of all of us, there are also plenty of examples of people who have given up on teaching after being snapped at by "you don't pay my sub" types.

We need to give up this superiority complex of JP vs NA, FFXI vs WoW (and EQ and RIFT and UO and every other MMO that Squaresoft didn't make). Instead of trying to discount the views of vast swaths of people because of where they were born or what games they have enjoyed or critiqued over the years, listen to each person based on their own merits. And let's give a hearty thank you to the dozens if not hundreds of NA/EU content creators who are producing guides and other media for us to learn from and enjoy.

[Kuroka]

Personally I'm an ethnic Chinese Singaporean, fluent in English, Chinese, Indonesian, Japanese and German.

Warte du sprichst auch noch deutsch?? Und ich fand das englisch schon sehr gut/angenehm zu lesen^^


But yes i have to chime in there, pls dont leave, youre insights are rly interresting, I'm sure many others would miss that too.

[Tsumdere]

I'm not sure what continuously pointing out cultural differences between the data centres is doing to help any situation.

We are not "the West" or NA/EU like Japan is Japanese.

We are Aus/NZ/Oceania, USA/Canada/Brazil/South America, France/Germany/England etc etc etc. There are widely different styles of language and culture at force here.

Our servers are a hodgepodge pot of many people and differences in game play. As what happens in real life, people in the same countries find each other to play within similar time zones. People who speak French are (generally) going to group with others who speak French. English players are going to get annoyed when non-English speakers join their groups and can't understand the strategy. Just like on Tonberry, the Japanese want to play with the Japanese and just like the rest of us, that data centre is at war for portals.

Just saying something is a simple as Your Servers vs Japanese is short sighted.

The thing Square forgot when implementing this content is that, the servers that aren't Japanese are of vastly different people's and time zones. People want to do content with their friends, the same way like we progress every single other content. Japan has a pug culture where everyone speaks the same language, is on at the same time, and have the same mind set, obeys Japanese macros.

We do not.

Even the culture and conduct between Aether and Primal parties are different beasts.

Because people are trying to push the "Japanese can do it why can't you?" shtick without considering that we have 6 time zones in America alone, extremely different cultures from coast to coast, multiple languages spoken, and less than half of the active Eureka player base they do. They think that magically with a drop of a hat that we will completely swap from years of rejecting harder pugged content (casual reminder that our EX and raid queues are 10 hours+ while the JP servers use them frequently) to embracing the PUG in lieu of premades and PF.

It was shortsighted design. BA should have been a separate instance from the very beginning.

(And I am saying this from the perspective of someone who PUGs almost everything and is very patient. I don't have a static and probably will never have one.)