Il Mheg 1/2 of two mirrored zones?

[Iscah]

2+4=6
13-6=7
What about the other seven?

Rejoined in previous Calamities, and no longer in existence.

[QT_Melon]

Do you have a different option for the who is doing the calling using Arbert's voice?

That it may not be Arbert's voice but possibly same VA? It's not uncommon for English VAs do multiple roles. :P
I have no cart in this race one way or the other but just throwing that out there.

[fay2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the case that English was the ONLY language in which they used Arbert's voice for the calling? It's been a while, but I seem to remember conversation in the forums to that effect.

It could well still be Arbert, but why would they change his voice in the other versions?

That it may not be Arbert's voice but possibly same VA? It's not uncommon for English VAs do multiple roles. :P.

Interesting that would put it into the category of ,Hint or Red Herring.
Red Herring being a hint whether meant or unintended to mislead.

It is fundamentally an hint either way, and it may be something only in the English but its still here, we are in the English part of these forums.

Its use was in response to Katie_Kitty who stated there was "really no evidence whatsoever or even hints" for shard travel.

.

I get that 1st shard travel is a common pet theory but there's really no evidence whatsoever or even hints that that's what going on.

hints wise here is some:
-warriors of darkness coming from the 1st shard (like QT_Melon stated)
-Minfilia going to the 1st shard with the warriors of darkness (like QT_Melon stated)
-The Calling from the warrior of darkness.
-The Scions that have been called their souls have traveled and vanished but their souls have not returned to the live stream.

Katie_Kitty also said

On the other hand they've practically thrown the time travel suggestions in our faces all throughout the leadup to shadowbringers.

but gave nothing

So thankyou Iscah

As I recall, the first suggestions of time travel were from the game itself, or something close to it - the Caller's words being taken from a time-travel incantation in FF Tactics, the 5.0 trailer's suggestion that "years have come and gone", that past events must be undone and that "history must be unwritten".

So one line is similar to time-travel incantation in FF Tactics that's a fair hint

However its very possible "throw wide the gates that we may pass" its just the warp/transport travel part of the spell and may be just in other travel spells too.
Being that the rest of the spell is yet to show. Which is also bit that refences time and the part that makes it a time-travel spell .


When it comes to the "the 5.0 trailer's suggestion that "years have come and gone""

They have. that ones fact.
Have you asked yourself how many in game years have passed since FFXIV release?


Then the "that past events must be undone and that "history must be unwritten"" also a fair hint

This could also be used by someone fighting a set fate or someone seeing a repeating pattern in history and trying prevent it {Less likely}. Considering fate is regularly viewed as prewritten history "history must be unwritten" fits that too.

[fay2]

But if it is meant to be him, then it's new evidence that strengthens the support for a theory I already had. And I still think his reappearance as an MSQ character (say, if you said out of the blue "G'raha's coming back into the story, how could you make that work?") would be most plausibly supported by using the pre-established possibility of time travel to get around the issue of him originating in an optional quest.

Asked how they handled Estinien and Nidhogg in the dragoon class quests between 30 and 50, if you finished HW and where in late HW or beyond when you did them?

or
Nanamo Ul Namo in the CUL 50 quest if you did it while she was "dead" in msq

2+4=6
13-6=7
What about the other seven?

Rejoined in previous Calamities, and no longer in existence.

Yup was working again on that assumed knowledge as Iscah answered here.

However that said they might also be there in some state of flux too. Being how assumed knowledge tends to go.

If those 7 are in flux, so there but not there. You would need a temporal barrier to visit safely in the least if not time travel at that point.
Also if they are in a state of flux it might also lore in a reason as why they went from there have been 6 heaven/hells to 7 heaven/hells, between ffxiv and ARR. Being these remnants of shard are those "hells" rather than 7 hells sounds better{it dose} as a reason.

[ObsidianFire]

FFXIV has always had seven hells/heavens. It was FFXI that had six. The out of universe reason was the Koji liked the sound of "Seven hells" as a minor expletive better then "Six hells" and came up with a lore justification for having seven hells.

The seven Shards that were Rejoined to the Source are gone. They flat out don't exist anymore. You can think of it like when two bubbles share a "wall" and when the "wall" is popped, the two bubbles turn into one big one. As far as we know, it's impossible to "undo" a Rejoining.

One of the reasons I don't like the idea of time travel is that it makes things like the Rejoinings that very, very messy. All the Rejoinings except the seventh Rejoining happened over one and a half thousand years ago. Preventing any of those would change history on the Source in such a massive way that I can't see any good reason why Eorzea as we know it would exist afterwards. Which would fly in the face of how the established overworld never really changes from expansion to expansion.

[Cybylt]

I wouldn't call it a time travel spell in Tactics, they're casting Warp. Calling upon what is referred to as the Reeve (magistrate, ruler) of Time to throw wide the gates and open a portal from Orbonne to Mullonde. Nothing suggests time travel like that, there are no plot factors of it as time travel, so much as the interplay of Space and Time and crossing a great distance in an instant is technically time travel.

[fay2]

FFXIV has always had seven hells/heavens. It was FFXI that had six. The out of universe reason was the Koji liked the sound of "Seven hells" as a minor expletive better then "Six hells" and came up with a lore justification for having seven hells.

Noted my bad I'm guessing my brain added a V.

One of the reasons I don't like the idea of time travel is that it makes things like the Rejoinings that very, very messy. All the Rejoinings except the seventh Rejoining happened over one and a half thousand years ago. Preventing any of those would change history on the Source in such a massive way that I can't see any good reason why Eorzea as we know it would exist afterwards. Which would fly in the face of how the established overworld never really changes from expansion to expansion.

I agree butterfly effect.

For that reason and others
-The amount of chaos it would course through out time, just what the ascians what. The moment we get time travel is surely the moment a temporal calamity would happen ending existence as we know it and marking the rebirth of Zodiark? only plausible as 13th calamity I guess with desperate ascians.
-How poorly the alexander story arc come off, which was time travel it created a paradox loop.
-There is a time travel mechanic in the game already "the echo" it cant change out comes of the past.

The seven Shards that were Rejoined to the Source are gone. They flat out don't exist anymore. You can think of it like when two bubbles share a "wall" and when the "wall" is popped, the two bubbles turn into one big one. As far as we know, it's impossible to "undo" a Rejoining.

Yes as I said i'm working on that assumed knowledge.

However that ignores the fact there is history of those shards being separate to the source and we have a way to pseudo-time travel "the echo". This is why I said "in some state of flux" being there but not there at the same time

-They are not there because they have rejoined and physically gone
but also
-Are there as history of their existence being there somewhere. You'd need the echo to comprehend it. the echo could let you feel like your traveled there but you couldn't change its history.

That said all this might require us find a bit that has rejoined or to look into the mind of someone/thing who has been there to those shards before they rejoined.

The mind of someone who has been there to those shards before they rejoined option seems the easier to do, As few beings come quickly to mind that could fit that bill are Ascians, Voidsent? and Dragons. We know can pass between dimensions.
Before someone goes dragons? an example Midgardsormr while sleeping ripped a hole into omegas pocket dimension to save the WoL from being deleted. Now while thinking of that ask yourself while allag was enslaving dragons where was hraesvelgr, ratatoskr and nidhogg during all that?

[fay2]

I wouldn't call it a time travel spell in Tactics, they're casting Warp. Calling upon what is referred to as the Reeve (magistrate, ruler) of Time to throw wide the gates and open a portal from Orbonne to Mullonde. Nothing suggests time travel like that, there are no plot factors of it as time travel, so much as the interplay of Space and Time and crossing a great distance in an instant is technically time travel.

I haven't played tactics far enough to know myself but your saying it's misrepresented as a time-travel spell (one that will put you in the past as an example) and its just a instant-travel spell or warp-gate spell?

So it could be used in a spell to open up a gate to another shard in this chase?

[Masha_Awandah]

I haven't played tactics far enough to know myself but your saying it's misrepresented as a time-travel spell (one that will put you in the past as an example) and its just a instant-travel spell or warp-gate spell?

So it could be used in a spell to open up a gate to another shard in this chase?

The spell in question was used by a Temple Knight to teleport from Orbonne to Mullonde, using a magic circle of sort on the ground in both places. Since this spell was the only way to reach Mullonde, it was highly sought after by the Lucavi (aka who the Temple Knight in question was following).

In other words, it wasn't time travel but long distance teleportation, despite the use of time in the incantation. As long as both circle remain intact, it's posible to go back and forth between the two places, which is why the Temple Knight destroyed the circle in Mullonde after the warp, to trap Ramza and co there along with the remaining Lucavi.

Hopefully this clears things up, if you have more question involving FFT, feel free to ask.

[Iscah]

Interesting that would put it into the category of ,Hint or Red Herring.
Red Herring being a hint whether meant or unintended to mislead.

Again, I disagree on that definition of a hint. A red herring is essentially the opposite of a hint.

A hint is a deliberate reference.

A red herring looks like it's a hint, but it's deliberately misleading you.



If the voice is meant to be Arbert, that's a hint.

If they deliberately cast the same voice actor (or a similar sounding one) for a new character, that's a red herring.

If they cast the same-or-similar voice actor for a new character without intending for it to sound like Arbert at all, it's neither a hint or a red herring. It's just a coincidence.

When it comes to the "the 5.0 trailer's suggestion that "years have come and gone""

They have. that ones fact.
Have you asked yourself how many in game years have passed since FFXIV release?

Actually it's a "fact" that the entire story is stuck in a time bubble and "no time" has passed since the beginning of the game. It's still only five years since the Calamity, no matter how much time logically should have passed.

That said, there still seems to be time "between" events - it just somehow doesn't count for anything.

It's best not to think to hard about it.


Possibly this "time become instant" incantation is having some unintended side-effects...

Then the "that past events must be undone and that "history must be unwritten"" also a fair hint

This could also be used by someone fighting a set fate or someone seeing a repeating pattern in history and trying prevent it {Less likely}. Considering fate is regularly viewed as prewritten history "history must be unwritten" fits that too.

If we can go by the New Year's poem, "fate" and "history" seem to be used as opposite concepts here. Fate (or destiny) cannot be changed, but history can be guided by our actions. This seems to tie into Urianger's line in the 5.0 trailer - essentially their fate cannot be denied, but they can decide what to do about it.

Asked how they handled Estinien and Nidhogg in the dragoon class quests between 30 and 50, if you finished HW and where in late HW or beyond when you did them?

or
Nanamo Ul Namo in the CUL 50 quest if you did it while she was "dead" in msq

Conversely, ask how they're handling Unukalhai lately - or rather, how they're not. A native of the Thirteenth shard, blessed with the Echo or something like it, official member of the Scions as of patch 3.5? He should be pretty relevant around about now... but he's in an optional questline and so instead he's still alone in the back room of the Rising Stones (and possibly, time-wise, still in 3.5), completely unconcerned or unaware that most of his new friends have fallen into inexplicable comas.

Then again, those new friends seem to have forgotten he exists.

text limit spill over from last post

Edit your post to get around the 3000 character limit. Cut the entire text, just type "editing..." or something similar (requires 10 characters of text) and post that, then immediately edit and paste your actual post back in.

Some people leave the first sentence of their post in the text box, but I think that's a bad plan. I've missed entire long posts before, because the person did that and I only saw it when it had a single sentence, and had no idea it was updated later.

One of the reasons I don't like the idea of time travel is that it makes things like the Rejoinings that very, very messy. All the Rejoinings except the seventh Rejoining happened over one and a half thousand years ago. Preventing any of those would change history on the Source in such a massive way that I can't see any good reason why Eorzea as we know it would exist afterwards. Which would fly in the face of how the established overworld never really changes from expansion to expansion.

On that aspect of time travel, I entirely agree - we should not be doing anything that changes the outcome of known past events, and would affect the story as it currently exists.

But that's only one possible type of time-travel plot. The Alexander questline has already shown that such a story is possible without affecting pre-established events.

Say there is time travel in 5.0 - it could affect any part of the timeline from the "present day" (ie. post-4.50) to the end of time, without affecting any of our established knowledge or changing the world as it currently exists. At the point when we were actively discussing the idea of 5.0 being a time-travel plot, I was firmly of the thinking that we'd be traveling between "now" and "the future", effectively a second time bubble, without having any impact on the past.

Maybe we really do change history, or maybe it turns out to be a larger-scale version of Alexander's stable time loop storytelling and the time traveling becomes an inherent part of events as they exist.

I remain sceptical that any hypothetical time travel would actually change events, past or future, but we will have to wait and see what happens.

I wouldn't call it a time travel spell in Tactics, they're casting Warp. Calling upon what is referred to as the Reeve (magistrate, ruler) of Time to throw wide the gates and open a portal from Orbonne to Mullonde. Nothing suggests time travel like that, there are no plot factors of it as time travel, so much as the interplay of Space and Time and crossing a great distance in an instant is technically time travel.

The spell in question was used by a Temple Knight to teleport from Orbonne to Mullonde, using a magic circle of sort on the ground in both places. [...] In other words, it wasn't time travel but long distance teleportation, despite the use of time in the incantation.

Thankyou for clarifying that. The original post comparing the two didn't make it clear.

-How poorly the alexander story arc come off, which was time travel it created a paradox loop.

"Poorly" is subjective. Yes, there are paradoxes - things that shouldn't have happened at all without time travel being involved - but for lack of a better word, they're neat paradoxes. A self-sustaining, stable time loop that doesn't break anything. It just happens. No single piece of it is left actively going around the loop repeatedly, everyone and everything has an entrance and exit from the story. (Except possibly the cat, but that seems to be a special exception. I need to map that out.)

I much prefer this kind of time-travel story to one where events can be altered. That is how we get 'messy' paradoxes - change the past, prevent the bad thing from happening... but now how do you know about the thing you needed to prevent?