Skillchains and bazaars

[Allistar]

Aaah, another "I want FFXIV to be FFXI 2.0" thread?

Disclaimer: I've never played FFXI, so I had to look both those things up.

so unfortunately because you never played XI or XIV 1.0 you have a slight misunderstanding of how skillchains and bazaars work. FYI when final fantasy XIV first launched we had skill chains and bazaars. Bazaar are where you set up items for sale on your character so as you run around the world other people would see that you have stuff for sale and buy them directly from you as opposed to posting it on market board. Skillchains on the other hand are essentially combos of weapon skills between players as opposed to one player chaining one weapon skill to another you would have let's say paladin uses a weapon skill and then a dragoon uses its weapon skill and they would create a chain together which would do sometimes double or sometimes quadruple the amount of damage that the individual weapon skills of would have done on their own you should look up a YouTube video to see exactly what I'm referring to reading about it is nice but it doesn't give you the visual or fully explain it the way a video might if you see it in action

[Vidu]

so unfortunately because you never played XI or XIV 1.0 you have a slight misunderstanding of how skillchains and bazaars work. FYI when final fantasy XIV first launched we had skill chains and bazaars. Bazaar are where you set up items for sale on your character so as you run around the world other people would see that you have stuff for sale and buy them directly from you as opposed to posting it on market board. Skillchains on the other hand are essentially combos of weapon skills between players as opposed to one player chaining one weapon skill to another you would have let's say paladin uses a weapon skill and then a dragoon uses its weapon skill and they would create a chain together which would do sometimes double or sometimes quadruple the amount of damage that the individual weapon skills of would have done on their own you should look up a YouTube video to see exactly what I'm referring to reading about it is nice but it doesn't give you the visual or fully explain it the way a video might if you see it in action

Thanks for the explantion!

I have to say that it still sounds like something that would not work in our current game, which has different systems in place to deal with those "mechanics".

I see little benefit from not using a marketboard to buy things to be honest. It sounds terribly inconvenient... We can set up retainers in our yards and sell gear using the mannequins now, but I doubt that many people use those features for "buisness"-purposes and focus on the decorative element instead (I know that I do that - and that I would never run around in a housing area, trying to find a retainer that sells the item that I need right now).
I dont even see a benefit in adding this as a system second to the marketboard in some way - I just dont think that its something that people would actually use. I bet that even those who might request it now, would use it to buy two or three items and then return to the market board.

And from what I read about skillchains now... nope, still dont work within FFXIV. One of the main features of this game is supposed to be that you can clear any content with any combination of jobs. Yes, we have some meta-stuff aswell and yes, some syngery between certain jobs exist (like how you absolutly want to take a dragoon with your when you have a bard/maschinist), but this sounds like you depended way more on having the right combination of jobs. Just not gonna work here.

And no matter how the skillchain-system worked in detail, its clear enough to me that it differed a lot from our battle-combo-system and couldnt just be integrated into that, but would rather require an overhaul of the whole basic gameplay of FFXIV.
And why would the devs do that? Why SHOULD the devs do that when our current system is working? Hint: "Because I liked skillchains better" isnt a valid answer - or well, it is a valid answer but one that has an easy solution: Go play FFXI then...
(Last part not directed at you, Allistar, more a general thing... sorry, I'm getting a little bit annoyed at requests that basically seem to aim at changing FFXIV into FFXI. I like FFXIV - mostly - the way it is. And if someone likes the basic gameplay of FFXI, they may play FFXI. At least thats my humble opinion. I'm all for taking ideas and concepts from other games and adjust them to fit this one - but I have... issues with people just "requesting" things to be like FFXI without thinking how and IF they could fit into the basic gameplay of this game at all...)

[Konsentrate]

Thanks for the explantion!

I have to say that it still sounds like something that would not work in our current game, which has different systems in place to deal with those "mechanics".

I see little benefit from not using a marketboard to buy things to be honest. It sounds terribly inconvenient... We can set up retainers in our yards and sell gear using the mannequins now, but I doubt that many people use those features for "buisness"-purposes and focus on the decorative element instead (I know that I do that - and that I would never run around in a housing area, trying to find a retainer that sells the item that I need right now).
I dont even see a benefit in adding this as a system second to the marketboard in some way - I just dont think that its something that people would actually use. I bet that even those who might request it now, would use it to buy two or three items and then return to the market board.

And from what I read about skillchains now... nope, still dont work within FFXIV. One of the main features of this game is supposed to be that you can clear any content with any combination of jobs. Yes, we have some meta-stuff aswell and yes, some syngery between certain jobs exist (like how you absolutly want to take a dragoon with your when you have a bard/maschinist), but this sounds like you depended way more on having the right combination of jobs. Just not gonna work here.

And no matter how the skillchain-system worked in detail, its clear enough to me that it differed a lot from our battle-combo-system and couldnt just be integrated into that, but would rather require an overhaul of the whole basic gameplay of FFXIV.
And why would the devs do that? Why SHOULD the devs do that when our current system is working? Hint: "Because I liked skillchains better" isnt a valid answer - or well, it is a valid answer but one that has an easy solution: Go play FFXI then...
(Last part not directed at you, Allistar, more a general thing... sorry, I'm getting a little bit annoyed at requests that basically seem to aim at changing FFXIV into FFXI. I like FFXIV - mostly - the way it is. And if someone likes the basic gameplay of FFXI, they may play FFXI. At least thats my humble opinion. I'm all for taking ideas and concepts from other games and adjust them to fit this one - but I have... issues with people just "requesting" things to be like FFXI without thinking how and IF they could fit into the basic gameplay of this game at all...)

XIV has gone through a ton of transformations. It will certainly go through more. If making these suggestions piss you off or something, why even reply with anything? I didn't ask if you thought it would work, I asked if anyone knew of developers discussing them.

[Vidu]

XIV has gone through a ton of transformations. It will certainly go through more. If making these suggestions piss you off or something, why even reply with anything? I didn't ask if you thought it would work, I asked if anyone knew of developers discussing them.

You missunderstood what I said: Suggestions dont "piss me off", they irritate or annoy me when they arent thought through with the basic system and philosophy of this game in mind.
Part of Yoshis philosophy for this game is that every job-combination can clear any content (as long as you meet the criteria of 1/2 tanks, 1/2 healers and 2/4 DPS), so I wouldnt even expect them to discuss a system that seems to require something that goes against this core design philosophy (aka: requiring certain job-combinations).
Its like asking "Do they consider bringing back the Active Time Battle?"

I'm open for changes and transformations to this game, as long as they dont compromisse the core of it - the battle system and the way it works aswell as their idea of "you can play this with whatever job-combos" you like belong to this core to me.

If you post something in general discussion you should be prepared to discuss it.

But to answer your question: No, to my knowledge the devs havent discussed either of those system (at least not openly, no idea what goes on behind closed doors, obviously).
I simply added my thoughts on why I wouldnt expect them to discuss them in the first place.

[Konsentrate]

I did think it through and still don't see, at all, why it would be a problem to add combos in the current system that could either add additional damage or small buffs. It wouldn't change the ability for every job-combination to clear any content. Would easily be able to make it available to the base job roles then any combo would be able to do it. Bullocks to the idea that it somehow would be compromising the core part of the game.

[Vidu]

I did think it through and still don't see, at all, why it would be a problem to add combos in the current system that could either add additional damage or small buffs. It wouldn't change the ability for every job-combination to clear any content. Would easily be able to make it available to the base job roles then any combo would be able to do it. Bullocks to the idea that it somehow would be compromising the core part of the game.

How would that be so different from the buffs we already have? Bards crit buff for the whole group - or ninjas trick attack + scholars crit debuff on a given target.

Most roles have a very tight rotation, that doesnt allow for much random button pressing in between - thats why a lot of jobs dont like to use the LB, because when they do, they lose their stance/buff/combo/proc/whatever. If they switch out of their rotation, to perform some sort of combo with a partner (who also has to switch out of their rotation), the possible effect would need to outweigh the potential loss of two stances/procs/whatever...

I can kinda see how this could be fun - having to coordinate more and so, but I already see how well those things coordination-things are working within this game right now and I dont believe that this is the right place for it.

Most jobs offer small buffs to the party already - some more than others - so personally I dont see much of a benefit in adding something that would either be ignored, just potential for drama or have such a tiny effect that its nothing more than a gimmick.


...to illustrate a little: My main dps is bard. As bard I can use "Battle Voice" and "Foes Requiem" to support my party - both dont stack if another bard is using them though. So in order to make the most of it in a scenario where more than one bard is present, you need to communicate whos going first with their buffs (okay, wont kill you - might get difficult if people dont understand english or ignore the chat alltogether) and then watch their MP/the timer on BV to know when to use yours. On top of: watching mechanics, paying attention to your song gauge and procs, the timer on your dots and crit-buff.
Casting Foes at any other time than at the start of a battle is also not ideal - I'll do it, of course, but its one of those things that basically break "my combo" and take away some of the "flow" in my gameplay. Having to time an action with a source that I have no control over also breaks this flow.