Skillchains and bazaars

[Jonnycbad]

Skillchains were a mechanic in FFXI which was the inverse of FFXIV's system. In FFXIV, you start out with 1000 TP and using Weapon Skills on GCD costs TP, which regenerates naturally at set intervals. This system used to mean eventually melees would run out and would require things like Invigorate or Goad to replenish it, but in 4.0 this was obviated. Now TP is just mean to penalize multiple deaths in quick succession.

In FFXI, you started off with 0 TP, and auto attacks (which were 1.5 - 6.5 seconds in length, depending on haste buffs/equipment/weapon type) accrued TP dependant on their delay, with heavier weapons dealing more damage but accruing more TP (and sucked especially for heavy weapons because accuracy capped at 95%). At >100% TP you could use a Weapon Skill, which dealt a consider amount of damage to targets your level or below (most could 1-shot them), but with the right gear and buffs could one-shot or close to one shotting mobs 6-7 levels above you. A melee that used a weapon skill after one preceeding it sometimes proc'd an extra explosion of elemental energy (depending on the skillchain properties of the 2 weaponskills used in the sequence).

You had about 2 seconds to use your WS to proc the Skillchain explosion after a WS that proceeded, so melee needed to coordinate and watch their co-melee. All weapon skills that hit the target (except for a few oddballs) had properties. You could even chain 3-4 weaponskills together and create more complex skillchains procing off of lower level ones. The skillchain explosion dealt damage equal to 50-300% of the weapon skill that activated it, in elemental magic damage (lv1 SC could be any of 8 elements, lv2 SC were dual-elements, Lv3 SC were 4 elements). Additionally, mages could deal vastly increased damage in a short 3-sec window after a skillchain if the spell corresponded to the element of the skillchain, and debuffs would gain increased chances of sticking as well (magic resistance was a thing).

This was a way for melee and mages to synergize, and on mobs that had vastlyyyy high defense (like bosses/raids), this was a huge boon, because melee was often heavily resisted but magic was usally not. For example, fighting Nidhogg in XI, a DRG could use Wheeling Thrust for 700 damage (loldrg), and a SAM could use Tachi: Kasha for 1200 damage, which would create "Skillchain: Light", dealing an extra 1200 damage (if the order was reversed, it would only have done 700 because which ever WS closed the skillchain is the damge that the skillchain does--so you had "opener/closer melees". Because "Light" was a level 3 skillchain comprising of Lightning/Fire/Wind/Holy, any spells of those elements would be buffed. So right when the DRG used Wheeling Thrust, you'd have 5-6 BLMs begin casting Thunder IV (which was about 7-s cast). When the SAM used their skill, the skillchain would proc and the BLMs would have finished casting and then you'd have a volley of 3000 damage Thunder IV's go off. Then this cycle would repeat as soon as the DRG and SAM regained >100% TP, which was about 7-10 autoattacks (so about 20-40 seconds, depending on haste/accuracy/double attack procs/buffs that increase TP gain like Jump or Meditate, etc).

Anyway, because in FFXIV each melee has their own proc and combo system, and some synergize well in terms of debuffing the target to slashing or giving everyone crit buff, etc, there's no need for a skillchain system. Ranged refresh TP/MP, casters reduce magic damage, melee reduce physical damage, tanks reduce oncoming damage, healers shield and buff. Each role synergizes with another already. Since FFXI jobs were mostly independent, the only way they could synergize is with SC/MB.

As for bazaars, we had something like in 1.0 but it wouldn't work in FFXIV now. Think about it....if you saw something you liked in someone's bazaar and they teleported away, you can't buy it. People are popping in and out of existence with joining duties/raids and porting to aetherytes, not like in XI where transportation was almost always relegated to footing it (no mounts in dungeons or in-door areas). So they gave us retainers which are static bazaars that don't move that people can visit and buy items directly from them, while we're out adventuring. We also have market board which is vastly superior to the FFXI auction house because the price of the items listed is not hidden and we don't have to bid to win it, moreover we can search for the item we want...in FFXI you had to go through a series of menus and there was no way to search by typing in a search term.

[Vahlnir]

Skillchains wouldn't work quite as well in FF XIV as it currently stands. Bazaars I wouldn't mind seeing again though. They were neat in FF XI. With the MB and retainers it is probably unnecessary but it would add another option to buy/sell items.

[Konsentrate]

So gonna just reply quickly to explain, yes sorry.

For skillchains it was simply combos that could be done with multiple players. So a WAR could land the end of their Storm's Path combo and a MNK could land the end of their Snap Punch combo and if done at the right time a skillchain could be trigger which maybe increases dmg a small bit. A mage would be able to hit an elemental spell that could hit for extra damage if done at the right time. Made the battle a little more strategic among players.

They actually had this in XIV at first, in a way but scrapped it--can't recall what it was called. I would love to see them enhance it, even a little. It doesn't seem like "I should just go play XI" when I can easily come into "General Discussion" and start a discussion.

Bazaars would simple be a way to see a small list of items on the person when you check them. Even if it was a few it would a be nice addition (even if they only showed up in towns).

[Melichoir]

So gonna just reply quickly to explain, yes sorry.

For skillchains it was simply combos that could be done with multiple players. So a WAR could land the end of their Storm's Path combo and a MNK could land the end of their Snap Punch combo and if done at the right time a skillchain could be trigger which maybe increases dmg a small bit. A mage would be able to hit an elemental spell that could hit for extra damage if done at the right time. Made the battle a little more strategic among players.

They actually had this in XIV at first, in a way but scrapped it--can't recall what it was called. I would love to see them enhance it, even a little. It doesn't seem like "I should just go play XI" when I can easily come into "General Discussion" and start a discussion.

Bazaars would simple be a way to see a small list of items on the person when you check them. Even if it was a few it would a be nice addition (even if they only showed up in towns).

I mean this just sounds like a weird buff window thatll end up with even more convoluted party dynamics. Currently, I as a player can just pop a buff (Lets say brotherhood going with your example of War/Monk) that everyone can take advantage of without pre-requisite. But a skill chain as described would require not only for me to be watching what a war is doing, but also lining up my GCD with his to ensure my snap punch. Doing this on top of watching boss mechanics, and then having this facet balanced against everyones buffs which they can pop freely or their own skill chain windows on top of things.

Im not saying "Nah combat is perfect as is!" and I wouldnt mind seeing some variety in how things are done, but I think that a skill chain-esque system would be a nightmare for the devs to balance and and a pain in the butt for players at all levels of play. Imagine doing a highly mechanic intensive fight that requires you to skill chain like that to meet DPS checks? Unless you overhaul how the combat system in FFXIV works, I dont think the skill chain system would fit without making things a mess.

As for Bazaars, it sounds like a shop system like how RO (yes I know its old school]) had where a merchant can park their butts in places and set up a shop.

The trouble is I would think a Bazaar system would work...if the open world had a necessity for it. Since RO is a grind MMO, having a merchant set up in a field or location where people are just mob grinding makes sense. Its a pit stop you can go to if you needed to resupply. However, the unfortunate thing with FFXIV is that open world combat is a lot less important. When an xpac launches, yeah zones are packed, but by mid expansion, people are sporadic at best. If the game had more open world combat, I could see the system being useful. But since MBs are merely a recall away (and none to expensive honestly to teleport to) there isnt much use really to it.

I suppose though if you wanted it in the game, what could be done is through retainers. Meaning, yorue given a special item (A retainer voucher or something along those lines) where you can go to a place on the world map, use it, and itll drop your retainer in that spot for a duration of time. Itll set up a shop just like if you had a retainer at your plot. Some stipulations might be necessary, such as you cant place two on top of each other, and you cant send that retainer on a mission or anything if its deployed. Maybe said retainer would have to be limited to being placed in settlements. Or if you could place it on world map, it could be attacked by roaming monsters so your retainer level and gear matters. You could possibly provide said retainer with extra functions (such as repair gear) on top of being a mobile selling point/MB.

[Vaer]

Bazaars were in 1.x, they were removed in 2.0 because market board/retainers. Retainers and the mannequin system are basically bazaars and you can place them outside your house if you have one. The market board is just an evolution of the ward system and the search option they added later in 1.2x's life and combined to be more modern and convenient.

Skill chains were in 1.0 (they were called battle regimens), but it was removed and replaced with the limit break system in 2.0. They aren't the same thing, but it's what ended up happening.

[Konsentrate]

Bazaars were in 1.x, they were removed in 2.0 because market board/retainers. Retainers and the mannequin system are basically bazaars and you can place them outside your house if you have one. The market board is just an evolution of the ward system and the search option they added later in 1.2x's life and combined to be more modern and convenient.

Skill chains were in 1.0 (they were called battle regimens), but it was removed and replaced with the limit break system in 2.0. They aren't the same thing, but it's what ended up happening.

Well bazaars are on your character, that's the major difference. Yes, battle regimens was what I was talking about and they were poorly implemented, I agree.

[Vaer]

Well bazaars are on your character, that's the major difference. Yes, battle regimens was what I was talking about and they were poorly implemented, I agree.

Honestly I see them as the same concept, in XI people just parked outside in rolanberry with their bazaar usually on a mule, no different than a market board really. It was cool to check people out in the world to see what they had, but since a large portion of XIV is instanced and they don't allow trading in most instances it would be pretty pointless when the market board already applies the same concept and is a lot more convenient with a price history you can check in-game instead of on a third party site.

[Konsentrate]

Honestly I see them as the same concept, in XI people just parked outside in rolanberry with their bazaar usually on a mule, no different than a market board really. It was cool to check people out in the world to see what they had, but since a large portion of XIV is instanced and they don't allow trading in most instances it would be pretty pointless when the market board already applies the same concept and is a lot more convenient with a price history you can check in-game instead of on a third party site.

The cool difference with a bazaar would be that if you were selling something people would have to come and find you and get it cheaper without the tax from the AH. I get the advantages of the current auction house and retainer system, though. I just thought it would be a nice little addition. Server congestion aside.

[Burningskull]

The cool difference with a bazaar would be that if you were selling something people would have to come and find you and get it cheaper without the tax from the AH. I get the advantages of the current auction house and retainer system, though. I just thought it would be a nice little addition. Server congestion aside.

The price would need to stupidly low or the item would need to be really rare for people the want to travel to where you are instead of standing at the MB buying items to craft with. Also you would need a system that says these people are selling things in this Bazaar in this place otherwise half the people in the game probably wouldn't even know you existed with the item in your bazaar to begin with.

[Vidu]

The cool difference with a bazaar would be that if you were selling something people would have to come and find you and get it cheaper without the tax from the AH. I get the advantages of the current auction house and retainer system, though. I just thought it would be a nice little addition. Server congestion aside.

If the item is crafted: Look up who made it (little signature on the item), send them a tell, ask if they're willing to sell it to you for less, meet up.

If the item isnt crafted: teleport to the city its sold in and you'll circumvent the additional payment. The seller will still get taxed and recive less than you paid, but we kinda need to remove gil from the game after all... You'll only pay the price thats listed on the market if you buy in the right place though.