I wish Gunbreaker would be a DPS class.

[EdwinLi]

Pistol whip wut

Only professional assassins can pistol whip their targets to death.

Jokes aside, it would be a interesting combo for Gun/Sword Job to be skilled enough so they can even shoot enemies in point blank for "execution" attacks.

Pistol Whip would also make a good off combo stun or daze skill that then combos into a pointblank shot in the head.

[whiskeybravo]

No he is saying we do not have enough dps and really do not need a tank or healer. Or perhaps this was someone else. Either way...
So then perhaps since healers are all ranged casters then we need mellee healers? Because we clearly do not have enough of those in that category.

As a dps main for over 5 years in this game i want something different, and Dancer as healer would fulfill that for me (depending on implementation)
I have loved Astro and like Warrior but does not really meet my needs in that i would main them

It doesn't read it that way at all, though.

For one i think dps we have enough until 6 or 7.0

I disagree completely because not all dps fit in the same schema. We have enough melee dps because besides tanks they're the only role with 4 members, but beyond that we'll have to agree to disagree.

Which is fine you have the right for your opinion. Tank and healers need variety too.

Whether or not tanks and healers need variety is beside the point when you say dps should get no new jobs until 6 or 7.0.... Ranger dps are far less represented than tanks or healers. Only two jobs are in that role, if we're going to talk about needing variety.

The whole context pivots on the idea that "any DPS" will do. But it won't. We already know they aren't adding anymore melee dps according to Yoshi-P, so that's fine - it's pretty much off the table. I do think we could use a 3rd ranged physical to help balance out the sub-categories a bit, after all pretty much every group wants this particular role because of the skill set they've been given. But even we did include melee DPS, we don't need another SAM/MNK type melee, if anything we'd need something to help compete with NIN because it's also a job that is highly sought after. So technically there is still some leeway in that argument I think.

As for melee healer, a lot of people I talk to seem to think Dancer could be a melee healer, for whatever reasons. I don't see a problem with it and would certainly add some playstyle variety so hopefully they are at least considering stuff like this, if not for dancer then something in the future.

[kikix12]

I do think we could use a 3rd ranged physical to help balance out the sub-categories a bit, after all pretty much every group wants this particular role because of the skill set they've been given.

Yes. The next DPS absolutely should be a physical ranged DPS role, I never said otherwise.

Dualgunner however said that ranged DPS are more underrepresented that tanks and healers and as such they should have importance over tanks and healers. That's the crux of the problem. We will be getting a tank and healer, but technically, even then, they are still more underrepresented with 0 for two out of three categories and with under half of the total amount of DPS. That's what I have a problem with.

Ultimately there probably will not be a DPS class this expansion. But if there will be, it should be ranged DPS. But if there WILL be one, there absolutely should also be one of each roles next expansion of a different variety. A mage tank and a physical (ranged or melee, doesn't matter) healer.

[whiskeybravo]

Dualgunner however said that ranged DPS are more underrepresented that tanks and healers and as such they should have importance over tanks and healers.

They are? There are 2 ranged roles and 6 tanks/healers to choose from.

FFLogs shows 34,837 uploads for BRD/MCH. There are 139,567 uploads for all combined tanks and heals.

According to most recent FFXIVCensus data, there are 78,990 BRD/MCH. Meanwhile there are 261,865 combined tanks and healers.

So yes, they are comparatively underrepresented by every metric.

We will be getting a tank and healer, but technically, even then, they are still more underrepresented with 0 for two out of three categories and with under half of the total amount of DPS.

I find it somewhat disingenuous to create an artificial dilemma to claim it's an issue. There is no Ranged tank role. There is no Magic tank role. You just created these 2 sub categories out of thin air. Ranged tank role couldn't even exist considering nearly all mobs move in to melee range to attack the tank lol

[InkstainedGwyn]

They are? There are 2 ranged roles and 6 tanks/healers to choose from.

FFLogs shows 34,837 uploads for BRD/MCH. There are 139,567 uploads for all combined tanks and heals.

According to most recent FFXIVCensus data, there are 78,990 BRD/MCH. Meanwhile there are 261,865 combined tanks and healers.

So yes, they are underrepresented by every metric.

Because yes, nitpicking enough to pull one type of DPS out but then comparing it to combined tanks and healers is totally representative.

Try breaking that down into tanks or healers, and hmmm. I dunno. Remove SCH from that since I don't consider it an applicable healing class, I don't like doing shield/preventative healing, I only like direct/regen healing. It's a thing, you know? I don't like a particular type of dps healer so it doesn't count when I'm tallying classes I have available.

[whiskeybravo]

Because yes, nitpicking enough to pull one type of DPS out but then comparing it to combined tanks and healers is totally representative.

I didn't make the claim, I'm just providing evidence that it's not wrong. Which, really shouldn't be necessary since it's a fairly obvious that's how it's going to play out in a 6 vs 2.

[Metsonm]

It might not be wrong, but it is an unnecessary comparison.

[Dualgunner]

I don't read his comment in the same context. Sounds to me like he's saying that we have enough dps roles, but if they are going to add more dps roles it should be a ranged physical since they are currently the least represented within that DPS sub-category. As in, we need a 3rd ranger more than we need a 5th melee. No double standard in that.

Yes, this is basically what I am saying, but I will add the caveat that pointing out subroles within XIV's DPS is a reaction to everybody screaming how DPS deserve no new jobs until 7.0. I made a mistake earlier in the thread with my counting, and have apologized for it; I'll outline it again: I miscounted because my brain counted our third expansion as 4.0 (due to not taking ARR as 2.0 into immediate consideration), so I kneejerked at not wanting a new DPS till 6.0.

Whether or not tanks and healers need variety is beside the point when you say dps should get no new jobs until 6 or 7.0. Thats 4 to 6 years of nothing for rangers or casters as well as melee dps.

Ranger dps are far less represented than tanks or healers. Only two jobs are in that role, if we're going to talk about needing variety.

In this quote, I don't dispute we need a tank or a healer. Actually, if you look at posts in my other threads, I think we do. Emboldened is the point I was trying to make, which Whiskey touched on: whether or not we need new tanks, saying DPS shouldn't get any new jobs until 7.0 is silly and needlessly vindictive.

You can argue that Ranged Tanks are the least represented job in the game. That's fine. I doubt Gunbreaker is going to be breaking that though, and they'll all still be melee tanks. Perhaps they could break them into Off Tank / Main Tank if Yoshida is really thinking about that. I'll cede Kikix brought up some good points about cross roles shared across the sub roles, so perhaps they could do that, we'll have to see.

But I stand by that, until they decide to divide the tanks and healers into sub roles, Ranged DPS is the least represented style of play.

[Hakuro89]

I didn't make the claim, I'm just providing evidence that it's not wrong. Which, really shouldn't be necessary since it's a fairly obvious that's how it's going to play out in a 6 vs 2.

Except it's not 6 vs 2, it's 3 vs 3 vs 2.
Please stop trying to consider tanks and healers as the same role that you can pool together.

[whiskeybravo]

Except it's not 6 vs 2, it's 3 vs 3 vs 2.
Please stop trying to consider tanks and healers as the same role that you can pool together.

I'm not the one that pooled them together.

Please learn how to read.