Can we remove Tank Stance?

[AxlStream]

In the case of Warrior you free no buttons as you would need to split Decimate and Fell Cleave from Steel Cyclone and Inner Beast.

[Burningskull]

In the case of Warrior you free no buttons as you would need to split Decimate and Fell Cleave from Steel Cyclone and Inner Beast.

If they removed the DPS stance and kept the Tank stance then Fell Cleave would be outside of your Tank stance while Inner Beast is there when you have Tank Stance on.

[shao32]

Why does tank stance exist? So that newbie tanks and people doing blind prog can put their "training wheels" on. This makes the role that people are already afraid of easier to get into and lets you learn fresh content with less wiping(because let's be real, no death screws up the raid as a tank death, especially when there's forced tank swaps involved).

Why does tank stance need the damage penalty? So that once you learn to plan your mitigation correctly, you can get rewarded for it with more damage - same as healers get rewarded with more damage gcds once they plan out their heal cds. It adds more room to improve your gameplay.

I highly disagree, tank stance penalty don't exist to create any artificial reward by not using tank stance, yoshi and the devs claim more that one time tanks are mean to tank in tank stance and they are dissapointed by how tanks avoid complety the tank stance plus they concerns about by result of all of this claiming tank damage its too high, at the same time i disagree tank stances exist to carry bad-new players, we have it bcs we are supose to stay on it, but the current desing and the poor sinergy betwen tank stances and everything in the game make it just a mere pull tool like the agro combo wasting a lot of space in our skill bars for anyone that care to use the jobs properly.

Tank stances right now create a gap betwen good tanks and bad/diferent ideology tanks, any tank who stay on tank stance for whatever reason are hurting himself and they party performance much more that one who never use it and use they kit properly to solve any kind problem in duty by a huge margin, it's a huge waste of potential specially since the tank role is pretty easy, agroo is not only a tank stuff its almost faceroll, everything hits like a wet noodle outside of TB and don't improve you gameplay at all since the "im a tank not a dps" and the lazy ones that don't care to use they skills will just sit on it and rolling around doing severely less that a bad dps or a bad healer.

[AxlStream]

If they removed the DPS stance and kept the Tank stance then Fell Cleave would be outside of your Tank stance while Inner Beast is there when you have Tank Stance on.

You only generate gauge while in a stance though.

[Melichoir]

I highly disagree, tank stance penalty don't exist to create any artificial reward by not using tank stance, yoshi and the devs claim more that one time tanks are mean to tank in tank stance and they are dissapointed by how tanks avoid complety the tank stance plus they concerns about by result of all of this claiming tank damage its too high, at the same time i disagree tank stances exist to carry bad-new players, we have it bcs we are supose to stay on it, but the current desing and the poor sinergy betwen tank stances and everything in the game make it just a mere pull tool like the agro combo wasting a lot of space in our skill bars for anyone that care to use the jobs properly.

Tank stances right now create a gap betwen good tanks and bad/diferent ideology tanks, any tank who stay on tank stance for whatever reason are hurting himself and they party performance much more that one who never use it and use they kit properly to solve any kind problem in duty by a huge margin, it's a huge waste of potential specially since the tank role is pretty easy, agroo is not only a tank stuff its almost faceroll, everything hits like a wet noodle outside of TB and don't improve you gameplay at all since the "im a tank not a dps" and the lazy ones that don't care to use they skills will just sit on it and rolling around doing severely less that a bad dps or a bad healer.

The issue is that the way teh current game is balanced, you can tank effectively outside of tank stance without it being an issue. Players learned that optimization allows for it so there is no real need for you to stay in a stance that hits you with a 20% damage penalty. If the devs want us to stay in tank stance, they need to change optimization by either hurting how much healers can heal, or raising boss Auto damage (or similar damage sources) so substantially that it is not viable to tank outside of tank stance when main tanking. In the former, youre gonna piss off healers cause it shoe horns them more into just being heal bots and less gameplay options, and in the latter it comes across as an arbitrary punishment for the main tank to take that DPS hit. Its not strategy or skill to turn a tank stance on or off.

This is why Im under the impression that MAYBE it might be better served as a oGCD defense CD that increases enmity and reduces damage while it is active for a brief period of time. Then its more about using it correctly. That or you tie more skills into the stances (like you can only voke while in tank stance as an example).

But these are all small minor things. Really, the concept is clunky, but tis not game breaking or that hard to work with. PLD probably gets it the worst of the 3 tanks, but again, this isnt some huge "Lets change this cause its bad" thing.

[Burningskull]

You only generate gauge while in a stance though.

Hmmm... I forgot about that....

[shao32]

The issue is that the way teh current game is balanced, you can tank effectively outside of tank stance without it being an issue. Players learned that optimization allows for it so there is no real need for you to stay in a stance that hits you with a 20% damage penalty. If the devs want us to stay in tank stance, they need to change optimization by either hurting how much healers can heal, or raising boss Auto damage (or similar damage sources) so substantially that it is not viable to tank outside of tank stance when main tanking. In the former, youre gonna piss off healers cause it shoe horns them more into just being heal bots and less gameplay options, and in the latter it comes across as an arbitrary punishment for the main tank to take that DPS hit. Its not strategy or skill to turn a tank stance on or off.

that's basically my point, the current use of tank stances are not intented and creates problems betwen the comunity and how devs view the balance of tanks.

but apart of that i don't agree, if you use you skill set you dont make you healers work harder, tank stance mitigation is overrated, and yeah being force to keep tank stance and eat the penalty in the MT spot is not fun.

This is why Im under the impression that MAYBE it might be better served as a oGCD defense CD that increases enmity and reduces damage while it is active for a brief period of time. Then its more about using it correctly. That or you tie more skills into the stances (like you can only voke while in tank stance as an example).

But these are all small minor things. Really, the concept is clunky, but tis not game breaking or that hard to work with. PLD probably gets it the worst of the 3 tanks, but again, this isnt some huge "Lets change this cause its bad" thing.

reworking or removing tank stances with proper ajustments of course its what we need, it will be infinitely better have a oGCD that i use constantly in combat rather that have 3-4 skills in my bar that have just 1 or even zero use in the entire encounter.

[AxlStream]

Hmmm... I forgot about that....

And just to nip a possible horrible idea in the bud. Don't say we should allow Fell Cleave and Decimate in Defiance, you would have Warriors generate extra emnity on their hardest hitting moves.

Also don't stick a CD on the move either as it would break the purpose of Inner Release and Infuriate.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

My problem is generally with tanks who skimmed a reddit post, saw 'DPS stance = best stance' and then don't bother to adjust or even research the 'why' behind the concept. I had a tank pull a boss in DPS stance. Like switched from Defiance to Deliverance, pulled the boss and then proceeded to stay there even though they were constantly dropping hate to pretty much everyone in the party. I've been that healer who's busted their ass on a tank who liked to wall to wall pull then seesaw to badly timed CDs or none at all. The problem is the overall expectation that DPS stance the only way to tank. Its not. Its just the optimal way and only IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I have two tanks at lvl 70 and it's hard enough to lead a group, know your mob groupings, adjust for group weakness without the added stigma that I less of a tank because I don't stance dance. Do I think good tanks should be penalized for pug misuse? No. But I also don' t think the way tank is being played now is the way it was intended, again not saying the way anyone plays is wrong but I'm pretty sure some changes will come even if its not removal of stances. Hopefully everyone will be happy with them. (Or too happy with gunblader to care).

[Arkdra]

In the case of Warrior you free no buttons as you would need to split Decimate and Fell Cleave from Steel Cyclone and Inner Beast.

Fell cleave gives the inner beast mitigation and decimate gives the bonus healing, problem solved.

Turning 100 ways for bad players to be bad into merely 99 ways.

It's not really a 100 ways. There's like, 5 common ways for tanks to be bad and removing one of those is a big deal.