Can we remove Tank Stance?

[Burningskull]

What if they made it so that your Enmity combos and your Enmity generating skills did more damage while in tank stance or only generated enmity while in tank stance? What would that do to the way tanks are played?

[whiskeybravo]

What if they made it so that your Enmity combos and your Enmity generating skills did more damage while in tank stance or only generated enmity while in tank stance? What would that do to the way tanks are played?

It doesn't do a lot considering high end groups won't need the tank to do any aggro combos anyways. You just need initial threat and then you shirk/lucid/diversion your way through the fight.

Not dogging on you or anything, but it just strikes me as funny that enmity is even really a talking point. My buddy posted an update earlier where spelltimers has a feature for threat now, with specific values and stuff, and I just wonder why anybody would actually waste time on that. Like it doesn't matter if I have 1372 aggro points. You either have enough or you don't, aggro bars in game tell me all I need to know. IDK just kinda funny to me

[AxlStream]

This whole thread sounds like people who don't play tanks at a high level trying to fix tanks...

[Canadane]

What if they made it so that your Enmity combos and your Enmity generating skills did more damage while in tank stance or only generated enmity while in tank stance? What would that do to the way tanks are played?

Literally nothing because the enmity combos aren’t used once swapped, or in WARs case, never at all.

This whole thread sounds like people who don't play tanks at a high level trying to fix tanks...

Pretty much. I made a post once regarding the romanticizing of tanks and healers, and it brings people to make strange accusations or concerns about the jobs where there shouldn’t be.

[Arkdra]

There's no real reason to keep tank stances. Make the mitigation always on, remove the damage penalty, apply the bonus threat to their threat combo/other enmity generating moves. The only job even vaguely hurt would be warriors since they have the split stance actions, but that isn't exactly the hardest nut to crack for the balance team. Encounter design team would need to balance around it but they already have to balance around the current status quo anyway so that's whatever.

[AxlStream]

Pretty much. I made a post once regarding the romanticizing of tanks and healers, and it brings people to make strange accusations or concerns about the jobs where there shouldn’t be.

Like if they are complaining tanks deal too much damage compared to DPS... Maybe the DPS need to learn which buttons to press in which order. Maybe then they won't be ridiculed by tank damage.

[Shougun]

This whole thread sounds like people who don't play tanks at a high level trying to fix tanks...

Might also depend on what tank you play, warrior's feels smoother than Paladin's which just feels clunky and imo usually unnecessary. I still want to see each tank have more unique tank systems (rather than all be stance on, stance off) but I feel like the wiggle room for tank balance (and healer) is very low.. so good luck lol.

[Melichoir]

Might also depend on what tank you play, warrior's feels smoother than Paladin's which just feels clunky and imo usually unnecessary. I still want to see each tank have more unique tank systems (rather than all be stance on, stance off) but I feel like the wiggle room for tank balance (and healer) is very low.. so good luck lol.

Theres a lot of 'issues' with tank stances in general. I think thats a topic worth discussing that even high level of play tanks can agree on to some extent. I wouldnt say any of it is gamebreaking, but rather there is a bit of clunkiness to how stances operate between the three tanks. Clunkiness that can be addressed and cleaned up I think for QoL purposes. But thats a different topic from this one.

[Derio]

Removing tank stance would increase tank dps, in turn devs would have to innately increase their defense and enmity generation. This would require rework of all 3 tanks alongside of all the other reworks they are doing.

I highly doubt they will remove tank stance, but I do think they will go the WAR direction to where there is 0 cost associated with switching stances for all of the tanks.

[loreleidiangelo]

Like if they are complaining tanks deal too much damage compared to DPS... Maybe the DPS need to learn which buttons to press in which order. Maybe then they won't be ridiculed by tank damage.

I can only really speak for the healer angle, but to me, I signed up to primarily make health bars go up, not make enemy health bars go down. It wouldn't surprise me that tanks feel the same, except maybe about "preventing my health bar from going down instead of my allies' health bars" or something similar. Like, nowhere do I advocate just lazily clicking only half of your abilities while watching Netflix and not playing your best, but as a healer at least I spent over 55% of my casts in Savage raid tiers casting damage spells instead of healing spells. That's not really the sort of healer gameplay I'm looking for. But I could link my logs from Delta and Sigmascape if I sound like "someone who doesn't play at a high level", I guess (I quit raiding before Alphascape came out but I doubt healer gameplay has improved dramatically in a single raid tier).

To expound a bit, I think both roles have pretty fundamental issues at the design level that leaves them frankly feeling like less interesting DPS jobs, in a lot of ways. I wish there were other ways to showcase your ability as a tank or healer other than...dealing a tuckfon of damage all the time. When Method downed Mythic Jaina yesterday their Resto Shaman's damage logs were nowhere in the orbit of their actual DPS players, because he had to heal so much. I get that tanking is a bit more nuanced than the healer situation, because dealing damage is HOW tanks generate and manage enmity a lot of the time, but I can respect the viewpoints of people who just don't feel like the plodding, sturdy meat shield they might want to be in this game.