Blue Mage damage

[Palladiamors]

How much DPS does a BLU do in a 2-3 min period? How much DPS does a level 50 BLM do in a 2-3 min period?


I'd argue if it's not interesting enough to fully experiment, why discuss it at all?

I am interested, though. How long did your tests last? If I understand your numbers, BLMs lvl 50 opener did 80% of the damage of a Moonfluted BLU opener, while the lvl 70 opener did 116%?

Ultimately, I want to make sure my overall point isn't lost here. I'm not being difficult for fun. I'm commenting because I've looked at numbers some other players have come up with, and I've confirmed them with testing myself. This includes entering lvl 50 dungeons while level sync'd. "BLU is very weak" is considered common knowledge at this point, but I'm not seeing that in actual practice. I'm seeing a class that does completely average damage for a lvl 50 caster. When I see people saying it's so very weak, I want to verify their numbers, and possibly revise my own testing if necessary.

Not trying to be rude but at this point, go test it yourself. You're not going to listen to anything anyone else says until you do. I've spent hours switching back and forth between classes and waiting for FATES to sync my black mage for more accurate results. Your turn.

[Kabooa]

I am interested, though. How long did your tests last? If I understand your numbers, BLMs lvl 50 opener did 80% of the damage of a Moonfluted BLU opener, while the lvl 70 opener did 116%?

Blu operates on a 3 minute cycle (When Shiva and Light line up naturally after the first use) and Black Mage 50 is basically a 24 second cycle.

I ran every test for about 1 minute, 45 seconds, as Blue levels out -extremely- fast due to the aforementioned limit of variables we can consider. Black mage 50 just had to be spammed to match the time.

70 Black Mage works on 90 second cycles, as convert is a boost, but less influential than lining up 3 primals with Peculiar light, so hard 3 minute cycles aren't required. You get a good idea of where 70 Black Mage lies just rotating around leylines.

The Black Mage numbers are likely a little inaccurate due to improper stat scaling, but the ballpark should be well enough around there.

[Symon17]

Not trying to be rude but at this point, go test it yourself. You're not going to listen to anything anyone else says until you do. I've spent hours switching back and forth between classes and waiting for FATES to sync my black mage for more accurate results. Your turn.

I may not have been clear about this, but I have tested it. I was asking for more about your personal results because they weren't matching what I was getting. I'm definitely interested in what others have to say, but I do have concerns about comparing certain attacks without a full rotation for context.

Blu operates on a 3 minute cycle (When Shiva and Light line up naturally after the first use) and Black Mage 50 is basically a 24 second cycle.

I ran every test for about 1 minute, 45 seconds, as Blue levels out -extremely- fast due to the aforementioned limit of variables we can consider. Black mage 50 just had to be spammed to match the time.

70 Black Mage works on 90 second cycles, as convert is a boost, but less influential than lining up 3 primals with Peculiar light, so hard 3 minute cycles aren't required. You get a good idea of where 70 Black Mage lies just rotating around leylines.

The Black Mage numbers are likely a little inaccurate due to improper stat scaling, but the ballpark should be well enough around there.

Thanks for the extra info. That's exactly what I was looking for.

[Phoenicia]

Snipping OP

Good to see people testing, and it is appreciated. However, are you testing pure DPS (damage overtime) or just comparing hit by hit. BLU oGCDs have cast times and naturally clip into each other. If your BLM is hitting 1100~1600 per GCD it would be higher than BLU's throughput in DPS simply because Bristling Ram and Dragon voices does delay the damage for a 50% which is probably not worth the delay. Comparing damage for hit by hit takes us no where. For example WARs fell cleaves do REALLY high damage yet they are still outputting "tank" DPS.

Also I do not think BLM is a good or fair comparison as you are comparing the supposed highest DPS job in the game. Not to mention jobs are not balanced around level 50 anymore. But at level 50 if the job is capable of doing anything above 400 they should be in a decent spot. (ilv 130 BLM used to do 600 and MNKs 650 but MNKs may do less now since their output was lowered because of new skills added in SB). Now fixing them to take less damage so they can actually solo or to unlock them into normal duties would be very nice.

[Phoenicia]

Good to see people testing, and it is appreciated. However, are you testing pure DPS (damage overtime) or just comparing hit by hit. BLU oGCDs have cast times and naturally clip into each other. If your BLM is hitting 1100~1600 per GCD it would be higher than BLU's throughput in DPS simply because Bristling Ram and Dragon voices does delay the damage for a 50% which is probably not worth the delay. Comparing damage for hit by hit takes us no where. For example WARs fell cleaves do REALLY high damage yet they are still outputting "tank" DPS.

Also I do not think BLM is a good or fair comparison as you are comparing the supposed highest DPS job in the game. Not to mention jobs are not balanced around level 50 anymore. But at level 50 if the job is capable of doing anything above 400 they should be in a decent spot. (ilv 130 BLM used to do 600 and MNKs 650 but MNKs may do less now since their output was lowered because of new skills added in SB). Now fixing them to take less damage so they can actually solo or to unlock them into normal duties would be very nice.

Edit: According to a try on Ultros where I was hitting 2 targets consistently, I did 152 but that fight sucks in general.

[Palladiamors]

Good to see people testing, and it is appreciated. However, are you testing pure DPS (damage overtime) or just comparing hit by hit. BLU oGCDs have cast times and naturally clip into each other. If your BLM is hitting 1100~1600 per GCD it would be higher than BLU's throughput in DPS simply because Bristling Ram and Dragon voices does delay the damage for a 50% which is probably not worth the delay. Comparing damage for hit by hit takes us no where. For example WARs fell cleaves do REALLY high damage yet they are still outputting "tank" DPS.

Also I do not think BLM is a good or fair comparison as you are comparing the supposed highest DPS job in the game. Not to mention jobs are not balanced around level 50 anymore. But at level 50 if the job is capable of doing anything above 400 they should be in a decent spot. (ilv 130 BLM used to do 600 and MNKs 650 but MNKs may do less now since their output was lowered because of new skills added in SB). Now fixing them to take less damage so they can actually solo or to unlock them into normal duties would be very nice.

Damage over time, with a one for one just for comparisons sake. The one for one is also important because the faster casts shouldn't be hitting as hard as the longer casts but the difference shouldn't be as big as it is. Its those individual filler casts coupled with Blue Mage's big hitters being on 30 second and 60 second cooldowns with Black Mages being dependent on two procs. Blue's heavy hitters do align with Peculiar Light so the sixty second cooldown primal abilities line up with it perfectly while the thirty seconds are every other peculiar light. Glass Dance is the odd man out at 90 seconds but Peculiar Light is still available every other cast of it.

Now...it MIGHT be useful to use Moon Flute during the first and third and every other Peculiar Light there after for your burn phases. I am loathe to use Moon Flute in general due to that fifteen second time with complete inaction but considering how much of BLU's damage is going to come from those cooldowns it might be worth the tradeoff. Cram in your three Primal abilities and your DoT's...maybe.

...okay, okay, so there are a LOT of moving parts to BLU. Now I need to log back in and start testing with Moon Flute during burn phases to see if its worth the loss of damage and support during down time.

Edit: Also, dog gone you. I said I was done testing and now I am going to go and test both that and relative damage to a red mage. Weeeee, more desycning!

[Palladiamors]

Moon Flute is a big old nope. It's a damage loss, doesn't make up for the lack of seven or so filler spells. Only time I can see Moon Flute being useful is when you know a phase shift is coming up with the boss being invincible for a while.

Red Mage highlighted the issues a bit more, I think. The damage numbers were closer, Red Mage ((In slightly inferior gear, due to me just letting my BLU keep on his swanky clothes)) hitting for 750ish a cast, Blue Mage hitting for 690ish a cast. And that's the issue, three is a .3 second difference in cast times for me ((1.98 Jolt 1 to 1.9 Blue filler)) but Blue Mage has a 20% increase in damage over the Red due to Maim and Mend and a 15 potency advantage over Jolt 1 with Off Guard on the target. Then again it might have to do with how scaling from Maim and Mend and Off guard work, both only adding to the base 130 while the 30% from Red Mage gets added to the 180. ...nope, even then it should be what, 260 from Maim and Mend and Off Guard doubling the potency of the filler to the 240 from Jolt 1 with Maim and Mend 3.

So...yeah. I think that more or less proves that Blue mage scaling is too low right now. So thank you, Phoenicia, for making me get off my backside and test something with potency and cast time closer to what the Blue Mage has. If the additional scaling from gear were really making up the difference for Blue Mages lack of a main weapon then Blue Mage 130 potency spells would be hitting for more then Jolt 1. Considering that fillers are hitting for 8% less I think its safe to say that Blue Mages are about fifteen or so percent behind from where they need to be in that department.

Now the question of whether or not fixing that divide would close the gap between BLU and other jobs is another story. I THINK it would close to gap to the point where we'd see the standard differences between classes and not a clear divide.

[Phoenicia]

Moon Flute is a big old nope. It's a damage loss, doesn't make up for the lack of seven or so filler spells. Only time I can see Moon Flute being useful is when you know a phase shift is coming up with the boss being invincible for a while.

Red Mage highlighted the issues a bit more, I think. The damage numbers were closer, Red Mage ((In slightly inferior gear, due to me just letting my BLU keep on his swanky clothes)) hitting for 750ish a cast, Blue Mage hitting for 690ish a cast. And that's the issue, three is a .3 second difference in cast times for me ((1.98 Jolt 1 to 1.9 Blue filler)) but Blue Mage has a 20% increase in damage over the Red due to Maim and Mend and a 15 potency advantage over Jolt 1 with Off Guard on the target. Then again it might have to do with how scaling from Maim and Mend and Off guard work, both only adding to the base 130 while the 30% from Red Mage gets added to the 180. ...nope, even then it should be what, 260 from Maim and Mend and Off Guard doubling the potency of the filler to the 240 from Jolt 1 with Maim and Mend 3.

So...yeah. I think that more or less proves that Blue mage scaling is too low right now. So thank you, Phoenicia, for making me get off my backside and test something with potency and cast time closer to what the Blue Mage has. If the additional scaling from gear were really making up the difference for Blue Mages lack of a main weapon then Blue Mage 130 potency spells would be hitting for more then Jolt 1. Considering that fillers are hitting for 8% less I think its safe to say that Blue Mages are about fifteen or so percent behind from where they need to be in that department.

Now the question of whether or not fixing that divide would close the gap between BLU and other jobs is another story. I THINK it would close to gap to the point where we'd see the standard differences between classes and not a clear divide.

Just keep in mind buffs stack multiplicatively.

What does this mean, you ask? It means Off-guard's 50% applies AFTER the Maim and Mend, this means once you're at 150% output, Off-guard adds 75% to base, totally 225% of "base-line"... Same with Peculiar light applying AFTER aforementioned 2 effects. If BLU is 15% behind at 225% output instead of RDM's 130%, we have a serious scaling problem.

[Palladiamors]

Just keep in mind buffs stack multiplicatively.

What does this mean, you ask? It means Off-guard's 50% applies AFTER the Maim and Mend, this means once you're at 150% output, Off-guard adds 75% to base, totally 225% of "base-line"... Same with Peculiar light applying AFTER aforementioned 2 effects. If BLU is 15% behind at 225% output instead of RDM's 130%, we have a serious scaling problem.

If thats the case then its even worse. Blue Mages ability to control its burst is nice sure, but the cooldowns are inhibitive and don't add enough on their own to make up for the down time spent using fillers.

If they can fix the scaling Blue mage will be in a good place. But...considering its a limited job, I dunno if they will or not.

[Symon17]

Comparing damage for hit by hit takes us no where. For example WARs fell cleaves do REALLY high damage yet they are still outputting "tank" DPS.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier.

If I beat a dummy for 90 seconds, I'm averaging about 41,424 damage according to my battle log. The issue is the battle log doesn't show the damage of dot ticks. So I separately cast those and add up the ticks to get an average both with peculiar light and without. Again, in a 90 second period, those average 8972 when added together.

It's not perfect, but that roughly equates to 50,396, which is about 560 dps when divided over 90 seconds. Unless I'm missing something, that doesn't seem too poor for a caster in ilvl 129 gear. For what it's worth, I've sync'd my SMN down to 50 and tested in similar ways. I average about 570 dps.