Blue Mage damage

[Symon17]

It's pretty commonplace at this point for people to mention how weak BLU is, but I've yet to see it thoroughly tested by these people. Most complaints end at "the potencies are so low compared to other jobs", while completely ignoring off-guard's 50% bonus, in addition to maim and mend V's 20% over magick and mend II. You at least acknowledge those points, but it seems like you're still just comparing individual damage numbers of a random BLM skill with a random BLU skill. Is WAR a better dps than SMN because fell cleave hits harder than fester? There's more to dps than that.

There are translated quotes from Japanese players in another BLU thread saying things like "Our firepower isn't as low as some have said. With final [BiS, or at least level 50] gear and after casting Off Guard, our damage per hit seems fine for a level 50."

Before repeating how weak BLU is for a lvl 50 job, I'd like to see people actually test the damage an optimized BLU rotation can do. I really think they'd find that it's not as simple as "glower only has 130 potency".

[Palladiamors]

It's pretty commonplace at this point for people to mention how weak BLU is, but I've yet to see it thoroughly tested by these people. Most complaints end at "the potencies are so low compared to other jobs", while completely ignoring off-guard's 50% bonus, in addition to maim and mend V's 20% over magick and mend II. You at least acknowledge those points, but it seems like you're still just comparing individual damage numbers of a random BLM skill with a random BLU skill. Is WAR a better dps than SMN because fell cleave hits harder than fester? There's more to dps than that.

There are translated quotes from Japanese players in another BLU thread saying things like "Our firepower isn't as low as some have said. With final [BiS, or at least level 50] gear and after casting Off Guard, our damage per hit seems fine for a level 50."

Before repeating how weak BLU is for a lvl 50 job, I'd like to see people actually test the damage an optimized BLU rotation can do. I really think they'd find that it's not as simple as "glower only has 130 potency".

I think you missed the part where I tested stacked damage and max damage potential in comparison to Black Mage. I took into account cast times for blue mage and black mage as well as maximum burst potential. Black Mage has far more burst potential in the same time period as Blue Mage, and Black Mages filler, Fire 1, hits for more than 50% more damage than Blue Mages fillers. The 20% increased attack speed alleviates some of that, but Blacks increased damage from more bursts swings it back.

Blue Mage does have Aqua Breath and Song of Torment to help but Thunder 2 tends to swing that back so those still don't make up the gap. To compare the one for ones right now, a level 50 Black Mages Fire tops out at 378 with three stacks of Astral Fire and Maim and Mend. Rams Glower Voice tops out at 260 with the assumption of Off Guard, and 299 with Peculiar Light. This looks good on paper, but in practice it leads to blue mages doing 800 to the blacks 1200, and even thats only for the 10 seconds peculiar light is up. The 20% faster cast time does not make up for this difference. The instant casts are the same story, with Mount Busters 310 potency breaking roughly even with Fire Starter Fire 3 WITH Peculiar Light up and a bit behind without, but being able to chain cast its big three during Peculiar Lights up time helps but doesn't quite make up for the number of likely procs of Firestarter.

[Kabooa]

Before repeating how weak BLU is for a lvl 50 job, I'd like to see people actually test the damage an optimized BLU rotation can do. I really think they'd find that it's not as simple as "glower only has 130 potency".

It isn't so much that it's bad, but that it's boring. Blue's extended DPS cycle boils down to glower or whatever 130 you want to use after a Machinist similar burst period opener.

Because anything worth DPSing is immune to status effects, you literally have no spell combos to use, and after your OGCD burn phase you're just hitting glower until it comes back up.

It's not easy to test since you can't force sync yourself down, and while mimicing your stats at 50 while on 70 is comparable (As base level beyond 50 rarely increases flat damage), that still screws with your stat scaling and you don't get a clearer picture.

It is not only annoying to do these tests, but they're also ultimately fruitless. What's the point? Why put the work in?

Because I'm bored.

Tried a moon flute opener vs non. (Moon flute is only worth using during Opener-esque segments - All three primal spells and a bristled Torment)

using a percent scale, the following is what I have recorded.

Moon flute Opener -> Light "Wildfires": 100%
No Flute OPener -> Light Wildifers: 92%
Moon Flute Opener -> Moonflute + Light "Wildfires": 92%

70 Black Mage mimicking level 50 stats - Dreadwyrm Staff
Compared to 100% Opener

50 Rotation: 80%
70 rotation: 116%

[Symon17]

Its damage is just a bit lower then it probably needs to be at current.

How much DPS does a BLU do in a 2-3 min period? How much DPS does a level 50 BLM do in a 2-3 min period?

It is not only annoying to do these tests, but they're also ultimately fruitless. What's the point? Why put the work in?

I'd argue if it's not interesting enough to fully experiment, why discuss it at all?

I am interested, though. How long did your tests last? If I understand your numbers, BLMs lvl 50 opener did 80% of the damage of a Moonfluted BLU opener, while the lvl 70 opener did 116%?

Ultimately, I want to make sure my overall point isn't lost here. I'm not being difficult for fun. I'm commenting because I've looked at numbers some other players have come up with, and I've confirmed them with testing myself. This includes entering lvl 50 dungeons while level sync'd. "BLU is very weak" is considered common knowledge at this point, but I'm not seeing that in actual practice. I'm seeing a class that does completely average damage for a lvl 50 caster. When I see people saying it's so very weak, I want to verify their numbers, and possibly revise my own testing if necessary.

[Palladiamors]

How much DPS does a BLU do in a 2-3 min period? How much DPS does a level 50 BLM do in a 2-3 min period?


I'd argue if it's not interesting enough to fully experiment, why discuss it at all?

I am interested, though. How long did your tests last? If I understand your numbers, BLMs lvl 50 opener did 80% of the damage of a Moonfluted BLU opener, while the lvl 70 opener did 116%?

Ultimately, I want to make sure my overall point isn't lost here. I'm not being difficult for fun. I'm commenting because I've looked at numbers some other players have come up with, and I've confirmed them with testing myself. This includes entering lvl 50 dungeons while level sync'd. "BLU is very weak" is considered common knowledge at this point, but I'm not seeing that in actual practice. I'm seeing a class that does completely average damage for a lvl 50 caster. When I see people saying it's so very weak, I want to verify their numbers, and possibly revise my own testing if necessary.

Not trying to be rude but at this point, go test it yourself. You're not going to listen to anything anyone else says until you do. I've spent hours switching back and forth between classes and waiting for FATES to sync my black mage for more accurate results. Your turn.

[Kabooa]

I am interested, though. How long did your tests last? If I understand your numbers, BLMs lvl 50 opener did 80% of the damage of a Moonfluted BLU opener, while the lvl 70 opener did 116%?

Blu operates on a 3 minute cycle (When Shiva and Light line up naturally after the first use) and Black Mage 50 is basically a 24 second cycle.

I ran every test for about 1 minute, 45 seconds, as Blue levels out -extremely- fast due to the aforementioned limit of variables we can consider. Black mage 50 just had to be spammed to match the time.

70 Black Mage works on 90 second cycles, as convert is a boost, but less influential than lining up 3 primals with Peculiar light, so hard 3 minute cycles aren't required. You get a good idea of where 70 Black Mage lies just rotating around leylines.

The Black Mage numbers are likely a little inaccurate due to improper stat scaling, but the ballpark should be well enough around there.

[Symon17]

Not trying to be rude but at this point, go test it yourself. You're not going to listen to anything anyone else says until you do. I've spent hours switching back and forth between classes and waiting for FATES to sync my black mage for more accurate results. Your turn.

I may not have been clear about this, but I have tested it. I was asking for more about your personal results because they weren't matching what I was getting. I'm definitely interested in what others have to say, but I do have concerns about comparing certain attacks without a full rotation for context.

Blu operates on a 3 minute cycle (When Shiva and Light line up naturally after the first use) and Black Mage 50 is basically a 24 second cycle.

I ran every test for about 1 minute, 45 seconds, as Blue levels out -extremely- fast due to the aforementioned limit of variables we can consider. Black mage 50 just had to be spammed to match the time.

70 Black Mage works on 90 second cycles, as convert is a boost, but less influential than lining up 3 primals with Peculiar light, so hard 3 minute cycles aren't required. You get a good idea of where 70 Black Mage lies just rotating around leylines.

The Black Mage numbers are likely a little inaccurate due to improper stat scaling, but the ballpark should be well enough around there.

Thanks for the extra info. That's exactly what I was looking for.