Should they remove positionals at this point?

[zeth07]

I think some people in this thread missed the point for thinking that not wanting them is about them being "too complicated" to do, especially the person who posted the training dummy and explaining how they work.

Doing the positionals themselves are easy, especially on a training dummy, you barely move a cm and suddenly you did your positional, then a few seconds later move again and there's the other one. This is not hard or complicated, and I don't think anyone would argue that to begin with.

It is when you have to do this when actual mechanics are happening that seem to have been purposefully designed against doing positionals. You either forgo uptime/actions to maintain the positional which is bad, or maintain uptime and forgo the positional which is also bad.

Which just brings me back to the things I already discussed. That is bad design, one way or the other, pick your poison. Either it is bad mechanics design or bad job skillset design. They are designing fights going into it saying it is ok to play suboptimally because you have no choice, you just make do with what you get.

If the positionals did not exist then all the fights that are mechanic heavy with a lot of built in movement would not suddenly become less complicated it would just mean the actions can function to their full potential.

Missing out on 40 potency because the boss decided to turn/teleport in the middle of my combo is out of my control, especially if this occurs more often than True North can cover. That isn't some sudden jump in a skill gap, it is the difference between taking a step to the left or right, and yet the bosses tend to just ignore that entirely either due to hitbox sizes/turning completely or abruptness of movement.

We already have decent fights that don't require positionals so the proof is already there, I don't think anyone would say Shinryu EX was a boring fight or not complicated enough, ignoring the add phase since they have it.

Lastly I will just say between ARR/HW to SB I believe there has been a sharp increase in mechanics + movement either as a player/party or the bosses themselves compared to the old ones. The differences between the ARR extremes and the SB extremes seem like night and day for example. This in general is fine, I'm not complaining about that per se, in fact they've been great but something has to give if the fights themselves are going to be more complicated and that's part of why I would suggest the positionals be removed.

[mosaicex]

....

So what you're saying is doing positional is easy except when it isn't easy, in which case it becomes difficult. Nice revelation going on there.

Also why are you people acting like missing a few positionals will dumpster your DPS? This hasn't been the case since 2.4, since then they have been continuously easing the penalty of missing positionals from "rotation crasher" to just "cool if you do it, fine if you don't (as long as you don't intentionally miss all of it)"

This isn't 2.0-2.3 DRG era anymore, where missing a positional outright denied you the damage buff or won't let you progress further into your combo, or in 3.1 where missing positional with Fang & Claw and Wheeling Thrust dumpster'd your whole potency per gcd to below the point where not doing them gave higher gain.

Of course except for NIN, but such is the cost of powerful debuff like Trick Attack, and even then unless the boss is spinning like spinning top there's no excuse not to wait a few seconds to land it safely.
This is also assuming you're playing by ears and not already have all CDs planned out like you should be.

Sure some fight(s) are a bit tougher on landing positionals eg. Suzaku EX (especially if tank isn't so good at minimizing the movement) but none of the Savage fights through 3 whole SB-tier have this particular problem.

"BUT SHINRYU EX"
This is not really relevant. Shinryu EX is not Suzaku EX, much like how Neo Exdeath isn't God Kefka or Final Omega. If fights weren't designed with postionals in mind then of course they will have to compensate in some other ways.
It's all about the fights presentation first, mechanics second, unless you're somehow suggesting it's the other way around ("Gee, I don't wat Shinryu EX to have positional so I guess I will present him like this")

Sometimes you just have to accept that you will miss a few of them and move on.

[Sieben79]

I think some people in this thread missed the point for thinking that not wanting them is about them being "too complicated" to do, especially the person who posted the training dummy and explaining how they work.

Doing the positionals themselves are easy, especially on a training dummy, you barely move a cm and suddenly you did your positional, then a few seconds later move again and there's the other one. This is not hard or complicated, and I don't think anyone would argue that to begin with.

As a Blackmage the rotation on a training dummy is easy. At SSS-dummy I do 8,5k on Chaos (O9S). In the real fight my highest was 7,2k, building up from 4,6K at my first kill.
And Chaos is a really slow fight.

So there comes Seiryu, quick mechanics, much random stuff. First kill 4,9k and my last kill 6,1k (have 22 kills and much more training sessions).

Its all about training and learning the fights. Had a Monk in my team who had done 6,2k. So it seems, he had no problems doing the positionals.

Train and get better, like with every Job.