Two things FF14 can adopt from Guild Wars 2.

[Drakkaelus]

A low level dungeon is not balanced around me being able to summon Bahamut and 1-shot an entire mob with Akh Morn. And if my Akh Morn is massively scaled down so it's balanced, then I have to execute my rotation perfectly to get the same result as someone spamming Fire II. There's almost no way to pair both groups of people together in any way that would feel fair. The only solution I see is to make an entirely new max-level roulette that allows you to take all of your skills with you to low level dungeons. This, of course, would completely undermine the leveling roulette. There's just no good way I could see this working.

There's a space in between, "1-shot the entire dungeon with a single spell" and, "no advantages whatsoever".

And like I said, another option is to redistribute your skills so that you don't have to be in your 50's or 60's before you get something that resembles an actual rotation. I don't care. Goddamn near anything would be an improvement.

[Arrius]

There's a space in between, "1-shot the entire dungeon with a single spell" and, "no advantages whatsoever".

And like I said, another option is to redistribute your skills so that you don't have to be in your 50's or 60's before you get something that resembles an actual rotation. I don't care. Goddamn near anything would be an improvement.

Or, you know, don't queue for leveling roulette. Seriously.

[Nora_of_Mira]

There's a space in between, "1-shot the entire dungeon with a single spell" and, "no advantages whatsoever".

And like I said, another option is to redistribute your skills so that you don't have to be in your 50's or 60's before you get something that resembles an actual rotation. I don't care. Goddamn near anything would be an improvement.

There has to be people like myself that values the limiting of skills in leveling content. Why? Because im using leveling roulette to learn a new class I've never touched, getting a feel for how the abilities flow before I even think of going online to read/watch videos. Some will argue I am learning nothing, but I cant for the life of me remember all of MNK's positionals unless i do a leveling dungeon with it and mess around because I never play MNK. I did the same thing with SAM and RDM; the reduction of skills allowed me to learn the basics of its toolset without overwhelming me. Its my opinion that not many people take synced content (sub 70) that seriously anyway.

[GrizzlyTank]

There has to be people like myself that values the limiting of skills in leveling content. Why? Because im using leveling roulette to learn a new class I've never touched, getting a feel for how the abilities flow before I even think of going online to read/watch videos. Some will argue I am learning nothing, but I cant for the life of me remember all of MNK's positionals unless i do a leveling dungeon with it and mess around because I never play MNK. I did the same thing with SAM and RDM; the reduction of skills allowed me to learn the basics of its toolset without overwhelming me. Its my opinion that not many people take synced content (sub 70) that seriously anyway.

Using levelling roulette to lean a new job is a horrible way of learning your job. Most jobs you are straight up forced to learn a new rotation for ever new skill, just look at Black Mage, which starts of with learning a harder rotation than it got at max level.

It'd only be an improvement to you because the system is removing from you skills you use on the regular in current content.

By level 50, a Dragoon has the entire core of its rotation along with most of its oGCD skills. Between 50 and 70, Dragoon only gets enhancements to that core rotation.
Same goes for Monk, by 50 I have all 5 of my standard combo hits along with oGCDs to go with them.
Bard isn't even any different, having its core kit of DoTs, buffs and nukes by 50. From there, it only gains enhancements to that core rotation, much like Dragoon.

By 50 a Dragoon is missing 2 of the skills in is rotation, by 60 it's still missing a trait that affects those very skills in such a way your rotation change. Skills post 50 being mere enhancements is just false.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Using levelling roulette to lean a new job is a horrible way of learning your job. Most jobs you are straight up forced to learn a new rotation for ever new skill, just look at Black Mage, which starts of with learning a harder rotation than it got at max level.

never played BLM so i have no idea. But for all melee dps and tanks, I've never had an issue learning their core concepts from dungeons 15-50 as the new skills didn't radically change their rotation. Like Sylve said, their core is pretty much at 50 with enhancements coming afterwards, for the MOST part. I only really learned DRG/DRK/BRD/PLD/SAM and I felt I learned their basic rotations this way, but I can accept thats just me if thats the case.

[Sylve]

Using levelling roulette to lean a new job is a horrible way of learning your job. Most jobs you are straight up forced to learn a new rotation for ever new skill, just look at Black Mage, which starts of with learning a harder rotation than it got at max level.

Huh. That's strange. Every time I got a new skill, it was immediately obvious how it slotted into my rotation. The core of my Dragoons rotation is still Impulse Drive, Disembowel, Chaos Thrust and True, Vorpal and Full Thrust.
Post 50, Chaos Thrusts combo gets enhanced with a new finisher as does Full Thrust. Later even than that, I got a trait that tied those two new finishers together into a new finisher, but that newest part of the rotation is built on the foundation of the original ARR Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust rotations.
My Rotation begins the same way, the oGCDs slot between weaponskills the same way they always did. All I got was an enhancement to my core weaponskill combos.

As for Black Mage.
Fire till out of MP, then Blizzard till full while Thunder DoT is ticking at 20.
Fire IV till out of MP + Fire to refresh AF, Then Blizzard 3 to refresh MP while Thunder is ticking the whole time. Foul when available. This is the 70 rotation.
The basic core of the rotation (Fire till out of MP, Blizzard till full) never changes through all of the new skills Black Mage gets, Blizzard IV just added a single new step between Blizzard 3 and going back to Astral for more explosions.


At no point while leveling any of my jobs did I feel like I had to learn a whole new rotation when I got a brand new skill.

By 50 a Dragoon is missing 2 of the skills in is rotation, by 60 it's still missing a trait that affects those very skills in such a way your rotation change. Skills post 50 being mere enhancements is just false.

Forgetting entirely that we never had those in ARR it seems. Were Dragoons an incomplete job during ARR because of 2 skills and a Trait we got over 2 expansions? No, no they were not.

Once again, YOU feel incomplete without those skills because you're used to using them regularly. Before you get them, they're just cool things the skillbook says you get eventually. Our jobs are essentially feature complete by 50. Post 50 refines and enhances the jobs. Building upon the groundwork that is the level 50 kit.
ARR content is designed around the kits you have at level 50. ARR content will break if jobs have full access to level 70 kits, because everything was made before those skills existed. Our jobs worked plenty fine before Heavensward.

This entire non-issue revolves around max level players wanting to use max level kits in content designed for jobs wielding a third or less of the skills they presently have access to.
If you don't like losing access to your skills, stop doing level synced content.
If the carrot that is levelling roulette is THAT enticing, then suck it up and play the dungeon as it was originally designed to be handled. You went into it knowing full well what the level sync would do to your job. Accept that and move on. Its 1 run per 24 hours. Its not going to kill you.

[Sylve]

There's a space in between, "1-shot the entire dungeon with a single spell" and, "no advantages whatsoever".

And like I said, another option is to redistribute your skills so that you don't have to be in your 50's or 60's before you get something that resembles an actual rotation. I don't care. Goddamn near anything would be an improvement.

It'd only be an improvement to you because the system is removing from you skills you use on the regular in current content.

By level 50, a Dragoon has the entire core of its rotation along with most of its oGCD skills. Between 50 and 70, Dragoon only gets enhancements to that core rotation.
Same goes for Monk, by 50 I have all 5 of my standard combo hits along with oGCDs to go with them.
Bard isn't even any different, having its core kit of DoTs, buffs and nukes by 50. From there, it only gains enhancements to that core rotation, much like Dragoon.

Tanks probably saw the biggest changes post 50, with the additions of their more dps aspected abilities, But even then, those skills were simply enhancements (except Warrior with Fel Cleave) to their currently used skills. Paladin especially with the addition of Goring and Royal Authority off Riot Strike which didn't previously have a finisher and was primarily used to get Flash MP back.

The problem is exclusively you. You don't find value in low level dungeons. The only reason you run them is because the carrot that is Levelling Roulette entices you into it.
For a genuinely new player (As we all were at once point) those sub 50 dungeons serve as live testing dummies for introducing new skills to the player in an organic way that also reinforces their use in a rotation.
Veteran players? Of course they'd be irritated at doing what amounts to a tutorial. That content was never meant to be hard, but giving us access to our entire level 70 kit in a dungeon designed around having all of 3 - 4 buttons would shatter the balance that content was built upon.

If you dislike having your abilities taken from you, stop doing content that takes them away. It really is that simple.

The space you are looking for between one shotting dungeons and no advantages is literally what we have now. Our gear syncs down with our skills, yes. But our high level gear has secondary stats that simplyu are not present on actual gear of that level. You will Crit, Direct Hit and generally cast faster than someone who is at level for that content in level appropriate gear. Post 50, that changes since dungeon gear gets secondary stats, but they had to because it had to replace endgame raiding gear.

[Drakkaelus]

The problem is exclusively you. You don't find value in low level dungeons. The only reason you run them is because the carrot that is Levelling Roulette entices you into it.

I've never had a problem running low level content in games before. FFXIV just handles low levels in the most tedious way I've ever seen in a game. It doesn't feel like it was designed for new players, it feels like it was designed for children. I said it earlier in here and I'll say it again. Just spamming 2 attacks for an entire dungeon isn't fun. Even as a new player it was tedious. It doesn't even serve as an effective teaching experience, at least not as a tank, since so much of what's important to how your class functions isn't even available to practice with until much later. I can understand easing people into the game, but FFXIV takes it to an extreme.

Or, you know, don't queue for leveling roulette. Seriously.

You know it's possible to enjoy a game and still feel like aspects of it could be more enjoyable.

Not everything need to be a goddamn extreme. Nobody's asking to 1-shot an entire fucking dungeon or have infinite limit breaks. Jesus Christ...

[Arrius]

You know it's possible to enjoy a game and still feel like aspects of it could be more enjoyable.

Not everything need to be a goddamn extreme. Nobody's asking to 1-shot an entire fucking dungeon or have infinite limit breaks. Jesus Christ...

We're 5 years in and with 2 expansions under the belt. Why bothering with changing it now?
The leveling roulette is a choice. By getting in a queue, you accept that you get possibly into low level dungeon and be limited in your actions.

It's mainly there to populate the dungeons for new players, since many of the dungeons are actually required to be cleared in order to progress in the MSQ. The daily reward + AIN bonus (and maybe a WT Second Chance) are just a added incentive to do so.

Changing the system and infrastructure to accommodate for the changes this thread suggest isn't worthwhile, when instead you can just slap a level sync on the overleveled player and limit him to the roster of abilities you usually have in that area.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Sure. And lets have limit breaks non stop ready in dungeons. Because 'they are fun'. Screw balance when I have fun nuking every trash group with caster LB, right?

No one ever said that, nor has asked for that, ridiculing other's position doesn't make you look smarter, it just shows that you maybe don't know how to read or won't bother.

and what

It's called Imperfect Balance, one of the foundations of many great battle systems across multitude of genres, including action RPGs and MMORPGs.
XIV also suffers from Perfect Information syndrome, and our UI reflects this, having so many options (good) but also having way too many windows, tabs, currencies, levels, items, information.. Just way too much.

We're 5 years in and with 2 expansions under the belt. Why bothering with changing it now?
The leveling roulette is a choice. By getting in a queue, you accept that you get possibly into low level dungeon and be limited in your actions.

It's mainly there to populate the dungeons for new players, since many of the dungeons are actually required to be cleared in order to progress in the MSQ. The daily reward + AIN bonus (and maybe a WT Second Chance) are just a added incentive to do so.

Changing the system and infrastructure to accommodate for the changes this thread suggest isn't worthwhile, when instead you can just slap a level sync on the overleveled player and limit him to the roster of abilities you usually have in that area.

8 Years and 3 expansions... Well, ARR is like a weird expansion-relauch paradox.
Because is never too late to make things better
Oh but it is, with 14 million accounts being bragged about, yet barely 700k players (even if its an all time record) it means that an enormous amount of players did try XIV and didn't like it, probably dropping on the early game, where the game is so annoyingly tedious and tutorialish that was probably where, seeing higher level gameplay would have helped a lot to the first impressions of players that did try the game, in fact, is why many have forever asked for real, challenging overworld content, even if it endangers new players, show them even if its a bit, how the game is gonna be at the end game

Then again, might not help much, considering that lv. 70 dungeons are just as hard and challenging as lv. 20 ones... Maybe there is not much to show? Flashy Animations. Mirrors and Smoke.