BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[Fyce]

-snip-

The debate was being slow lately because everyone is tired of seeing and writting the same arguments over and over again. Heck, even when I read that Skyskip admitted that he didn't actually understood why people were arguing against his opinion, I started writting a post to explain what were the reasons why people doesn't share his view, but I grew tired of writting it because there is already so much to read on the matter. So, instead I simply reminded it that his opinions are not a fact, and implied that the answer to his lack of understanding had already been given plenty of times.
People simply don't have anything else to say on the matter. Everything has been already written mostly. Now, most answers are "visibility bumps" or people casually walking in to post their opinion on the matter.

But this debate is far from over, as long as some people will not be satisfied with it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it started again once more after this week live-letter if they talk about BLU (and funny enough, I actually don't know if they will... of even if they should).

And I even do encourage people to voice their opinion and keep this debate alive. It's just that I think there is a good and a bad way of doing it. And so far, there was quite a lot of misunderstanding coming from either "side", so I can't really consider it a good debate. Curious to see how it will evolve. Not sure that I'll still want to be a part of it though.

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Edit: "Quick" answers for these points:

Am still curious about what you thought was shady and what contradictions there were but maybe you can explain in that thread.

For the "shady" arguments, it was about that part:

No other main FF title had more that 30 blue magic spells besides FFXI. No other main FF title let you make builds besides FFXI. No other main FF title excluded blue mage from the full game after it was unlocked besides FFXIV.

The "30 blue magic spell" was not put in context. A flat number without a context or a ratio is meaningless. For example, FFV had 30 Blue Magic, 18 Black Magic and 18 White Magic, which shows how much Blue Magic there can be compared to other forms of magic.
When it comes to "builds", while I understand what you mean, we still have the core aspect of the choice being given to the player in regards to what skill they want to learn/use. You were being nitpicky about one single aspect, while the rest was still relevant.
Also, excluding FFXI didn't make sense. It's the closest FF title that we can use as a comparison, so putting it aside is a bit unfair. Besides, speaking about "BLU identity" across the franchise doesn't mean excluding one title simply because it didn't fit your point. FFXI BLU is still a BLU, and still contributes to BLU's identity in its way. No reason to consider it more or less legitimate than any other kind of Blue Magic.
Finally, the last point is quite hard to swallow as it doesn't serve any purpose and has no weight. I could as easily say that no FF title than VIII made "Blue Magic" as a Limit Break thing. So what? What if BLU is a limited job in FFXIV? It's especially hard to read since "your side" loves to bring the argument that FFXIV BLU could be its own interpretation and doesn't have to be exactly like what it was in the previous titles. Well, that's pretty much what they did. But somehow, that argument only applies as long as it's an "unlimited job"...

As for the contradictions, you started by linking a reddit thread showing a BLU concept. This concept was for a Tank role, and got its skills simply by leveling, like other jobs.
But you then spoke about the "learning" methods for BLU, which contradicts with the way this reddit thread was presented in great details with each skill being learned at specific levels. No special "learning method". You also spoke about you liking the idea of a job not being tied to the trinity system, which -again- contradicts with the BLU concept you linked which was stricly a Tank. Finally, you spoke about Trine and Grand Delta to "AoE down mobs"... When only Trine was described in that post, and was an AoE mostly used for enmity and damage reduction to be used in the "tank stance". I don't know if you could "AoE down mobs" with great effectiveness with such a defensive move.
In short, while you said that you were "really hoping for a tank like this person's write up", the rest of your post didn't felt like it shared a lot of ideas with that reddit thread. I guess you simply liked the "general concept/idea", but it wasn't clear what you actually wanted out of that reddit post and your own expectations.

Any examples of what could be lost if SE were to make blu unlimited in a way that left the Carnival content alone? I haven't seen many that have just said "lift the restrictions and let it run free" which I'm sure you will also agree would be bad. So I'm curious if you feel there is more than that.

Three things:
- Making a regular job is -and we've seen it with Heavensward's balance and the fact that they reduced to two jobs for Stormblood- something that requires a lot of work. The ressources invested into making BLU as a regular job are ressources that wouldn't be put somewhere else.
- People say "I've waited 5 years to main that job!", but they have absolutly no idea how regular job BLU would actually play and if they'd have enjoyed it. So, to continue on the previous point, there is no way to say that the ressources invested would have produced a good and balanced BLU. Would you personally main it if you didn't enjoy its gameplay? A lot of people put gameplay first.
- While you and others are actually advocating for a regular BLU that wouldn't change anything to the aspects of the limited BLU as we know it, there is absolutly no guarantee that SE wouldn't choose a solution going that way.

It's all about risks & ressources management and acceptation. Most people who are in favour of keeping limited BLU as it is would be totally okay if SE was to come to us saying "we managed to work on a good and enjoyable non-limited version of the Blue Mage fitting the mold and that leaves the content of the limited BLU absolutly unchanged, while also not using any ressources that we would've used somewhere else". But that's a really big and unrealistic 'if'. So while people satisfied with limited BLU obviously would want everyone to be happy, the risk seems too big for them (me included), while limited BLU is a good compromise for a job that otherwise had very little chance to ever come in FFXIV. These are the concerns Skyskip failed to understand or willingly dismissed, while they are legitimate.
It's a "good enough & better than nothing" approach. What "your side" disagrees on is the "good enough" part and the fact that you are indeed willing to take the risk. That's basically all of what separates our opinions. You see the risk and ressources investment as acceptable, "we" don't. It's as simple as that, really.