BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[Skyskip]

If fans of the existing concept have nothing to lose, why not support those who wish to see Blue Mage gain access to all content?

This is the part I don't understand. Outside of the people who are riding this train because they enjoy seeing other people upset (and there have been quite a few I've come across during this debacle, self-admitting no less) they have no reason to contest the idea.

I can only assume it's because some people despise group content but continue to play an MMO for some reason. There's been a surprising amount of that coming out of the woodwork. Even then you'd think they should be fine with the concept provided they don't lose any of their solo content, so it just feels like it loops back around to arguing against it for the sake of keeping people unhappy.

Honestly it's not something I can fathom. You would think everyone would want to be on the same page for BLU to be the best version of itself that it can be that most people on both sides of the line could enjoy.

[jon041065]

This is the part I don't understand. Outside of the people who are riding this train because they enjoy seeing other people upset (and there have been quite a few I've come across during this debacle, self-admitting no less) they have no reason to contest the idea.

I can only assume it's because some people despise group content but continue to play an MMO for some reason. There's been a surprising amount of that coming out of the woodwork. Even then you'd think they should be fine with the concept provided they don't lose any of their solo content, so it just feels like it loops back around to arguing against it for the sake of keeping people unhappy.

Honestly it's not something I can fathom. You would think everyone would want to be on the same page for BLU to be the best version of itself that it can be that most people on both sides of the line could enjoy.

That's why we keep saying that some people view it as a "us vs them" thing. They believe one side has to lose instead of pushing so most in this debate can get what they want.

And before this one poster tries to twist what I'm saying, "most in this debate" means those of us that want a full blu and those that want open world and side content.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

This is the part I don't understand. Outside of the people who are riding this train because they enjoy seeing other people upset (and there have been quite a few I've come across during this debacle, self-admitting no less) they have no reason to contest the idea.

I can only assume it's because some people despise group content but continue to play an MMO for some reason. There's been a surprising amount of that coming out of the woodwork. Even then you'd think they should be fine with the concept provided they don't lose any of their solo content, so it just feels like it loops back around to arguing against it for the sake of keeping people unhappy.

Honestly it's not something I can fathom. You would think everyone would want to be on the same page for BLU to be the best version of itself that it can be that most people on both sides of the line could enjoy.

Ironic of you to say this when you joined the forums just to make waves and attack anyone making positive posts about limited BLU.
You can't fathom it because you're too emotionally compromised by the idea of maining BLU and discarding any arguments of why the devs decided to make it anythinng but limited.

That's why we keep saying that some people view it as a "us vs them" thing. They believe one side has to lose instead of pushing so most in this debate can get what they want.

And before this one poster tries to twist what I'm saying, "most in this debate" means those of us that want a full blu and those that want open world and side content.

You've been doing the "us/my side" since the very first posts, even before there were people saying they like/are indifferent to limited BLU. You keep saying it for the purpose of looking a bigger group in the public eye, not because there's any side opposing you (I wouldn't call a majority opposing/being indifferent to a minority as a side vs side. It's too unfair of a comparison). One look at the threads (and being here for the posts/threads that got deleted) shows that it's just the same few individuals going into every BLU related thread just to make it look there's a big ruckus about it (like you and Skyskip being present in any BLU thread).

I mean, there was only one thread complaining about the White Raven earrings being given away and even that got more different people supporting it than "make limited BLU unlimited". Even people who weren't there for 1.X. Meanwhile, "Blu's defence force"? Just the same 2-3 people posting ad infinitum with a few more people posting here and there.

[ChaseNetwork]

Ironic of you to say this when you joined the forums just to make waves and attack anyone making positive posts about limited BLU.
You can't fathom it because you're too emotionally compromised by the idea of maining BLU and discarding any arguments of why the devs decided to make it anythinng but limited.

You've been doing the "us/my side" since the very first posts, even before there were people saying they like/are indifferent to limited BLU. You keep saying it for the purpose of looking a bigger group in the public eye, not because there's any side opposing you (I wouldn't call a majority opposing/being indifferent to a minority as a side vs side. It's too unfair of a comparison). One look at the threads (and being here for the posts/threads that got deleted) shows that it's just the same few individuals going into every BLU related thread just to make it look there's a big ruckus about it (like you and Skyskip being present in any BLU thread).

I mean, there was only one thread complaining about the White Raven earrings being given away and even that got more different people supporting it than "make limited BLU unlimited". Even people who weren't there for 1.X. Meanwhile, "Blu's defence force"? Just the same 2-3 people posting ad infinitum with a few more people posting here and there.

I don't tend to look at people's names when they say things, normally. Unless it's a really fun back and forth, like a play. You notice such things, eh?

[JohnSpawnVFX]

I don't tend to look at people's names when they say things, normally. Unless it's a really fun back and forth, like a play. You notice such things, eh?

Good memory and they've been in every BLU thread, so it's hard not to notice.

[ChaseNetwork]

Good memory and they've been in every BLU thread, so it's hard not to notice.

I've got good memory, though it's resourced differently.
I remember the coordinates of every single mob in the game. Makes hunts super easy and quick.

[Skyskip]

Ironic of you to say this when you joined the forums just to make waves and attack anyone making positive posts about limited BLU.
You can't fathom it because you're too emotionally compromised by the idea of maining BLU and discarding any arguments of why the devs decided to make it anythinng but limited.

You know you're pointing a lot of fingers at me about 'attacking' people yet you're the one who's been insulting throughout this entire ordeal. It's really hard to take you seriously.

There is no good argument for making it limited, full stop.

[jon041065]

You've been doing the "us/my side" since the very first posts, even before there were people saying they like/are indifferent to limited BLU. You keep saying it for the purpose of looking a bigger group in the public eye, not because there's any side opposing you (I wouldn't call a majority opposing/being indifferent to a minority as a side vs side. It's too unfair of a comparison). One look at the threads (and being here for the posts/threads that got deleted) shows that it's just the same few individuals going into every BLU related thread just to make it look there's a big ruckus about it (like you and Skyskip being present in any BLU thread).

I mean, there was only one thread complaining about the White Raven earrings being given away and even that got more different people supporting it than "make limited BLU unlimited". Even people who weren't there for 1.X. Meanwhile, "Blu's defence force"? Just the same 2-3 people posting ad infinitum with a few more people posting here and there.

There were clear sides before I even got into the debate. I was taking part in the debate on reddit the day after the live letter and then here on the official forums three days later. Should actually check my post history before making such a claim. It's mostly the same people on both sides debating all of this. There's a handful of more outspoken people on both sides, some on both sides that post more sporadically, and then some that just made a few posts at most towards this issue. And yes, there are some that share our viewpoint that have left the discussion. That would be because they unsubbed and it's been longer than two weeks since they logged into the game. I can't say for sure how many since no one can. I did have some on reddit that got into this on these boards before me that told me their "forum time" would be running out soon. WoW is seeing a similar thing with it looking like those against things like azerite gear and the rng with loot conceding in the debate when it's really that they have quit the game and can't post anymore.

One of these blu threads was quiet for two days before Fyce (someone that is pro limited blu) bumped it back to the front page.

snip

I didn't make any of these threads where the debate is taking place in.

As for the whole sides thing in the first place, I think it's in a response to people that are saying most of us can't get what we want. That it's "us vs them" and that one "side" has to lose so people are picking which outcome they would prefer if it came down to it. If that mindset was dropped, then I bet the sides would mostly vanish.

At least you're not the worse person from your side that I've talked with anymore. You're in second place now.

Its funny in all these threads I seen not one person who is for blue mage being non limited has yet to lay out a constructive idea on how they could even achieve it, I get people are upset and fear the unknown but you have to try something before you can form an opinion, yes it sucks its not going to be 70 cap at day one but this is the first solo class being added to XIV are you not the least bit curious how that pans out XI had solo classes PUP and BST and they were OP when a skilled player was behind the wheel.

I have to wonder if people are more upset about not really knowing how this will work or the fact that they chose BLU to be the first Solo class for the experiment, honestly if that's the case you should count yourself lucky as it sounded like they weren't even going to bother considering blu at all and to quote the guy from mighty no.9 "At least its something".

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-Blu-Concepts <----- would like to say Hi!

Like Shougun said, there have plenty of posts for how they could see blu work in the full game. Not all the details hammered out but that's not out job.

We don't have to try out a job built around soloing to know that we would have preferred a job that is available to be used in all the same things that the current combat jobs can. BST and PUP were not designed to be strictly solo jobs on XI. They could participate in ALL the same content as any other job. It was the player base that pushed them to be mostly solo as many players didn't want to drop gil into dismissing their pet before the party killed something to just call out another jug pet or spend the millions it would take to get the important pup attachments. Pretty sure PUP was never OP in the 75 days and yes BST was capable of soloing some things but was no where close to what RDM and NIN were capable of.

Blu being the first in this experiment wouldn't change much. Those of us against a job having these types of restrictions would still be saying the same thing. There would be some people that are upset because they wanted to main blu that would be swapped out with people that wanted to main bst if that was the first limited job.

[Fyce]

If fans of the existing concept have nothing to lose, why not support those who wish to see Blue Mage gain access to all content?

What if they do have something to lose?

This is the part I don't understand. Outside of the people who are riding this train because they enjoy seeing other people upset (and there have been quite a few I've come across during this debacle, self-admitting no less) they have no reason to contest the idea.

There is no good argument for making it limited, full stop.

Maybe you would understand if you tried, instead of stating your opinion like a fact.
You don't get to decide if people's concerns about what you ask for are justified or not.

---
Side tangent:

One of these blu threads was quiet for two days before Fyce (someone that is pro limited blu) bumped it back to the front page.

I'm not on the forums 24/7, and it's not because a thread gets in the second page that I'll refrain myself from answering to someone who have thrown ad hominems at me, used strawmans, put words in my mouth, and assumed that I was being disingenuous because I asked my question too aggressively for their tastes.
The post you quoted from me wasn't even about BLU itself. It was me defending myself from someone who just wanted to attack me. So don't use that as an excuse for "my side" keeping up the debate. If that dude kept it shut instead of flaming me, I'd have not answered.

[jon041065]

I'm not on the forums 24/7, and it's not because a thread gets in the second page that I'll refrain myself from answering to someone who have thrown ad hominems at me, used strawmans, put words in my mouth, and assumed that I was being disingenuous because I asked my question too aggressively for their tastes.
The post you quoted from me wasn't even about BLU itself. It was me defending myself from someone who just wanted to attack me. So don't use that as an excuse for "my side" keeping up the debate. If that dude kept it shut instead of flaming me, I'd have not answered.

You're more than welcome to post when you can and in response to what you want. I brought your post up to show that it's not just the same "2-3" of us that are keeping these threads active. New people or people that post infrequently will bump the thread back up and then people from both viewpoints make responses.

And I will agree with you somewhat about the person you responded to in that thread. I don't believe it was quite as bad as you view it but do feel he did alter some of the points you were trying to make in order to make them easier to argue against. I've said many times that there is plenty of toxicity on both sides and I wish there wasn't a post limit so I could do more to stop it on our side.

Remember that we don't have a bad history with one another.

I actually thank jon041065 for engaging with me the way he did, trying to answer honestly to my question. And while the end paragraph was a bit shady and the post had some contradictions, it helped me grasp what could some people consider as the job's identity.

Am still curious about what you thought was shady and what contradictions there were but maybe you can explain in that thread.

What if they do have something to lose?

Any examples of what could be lost if SE were to make blu unlimited in a way that left the Carnival content alone? I haven't seen many that have just said "lift the restrictions and let it run free" which I'm sure you will also agree would be bad. So I'm curious if you feel there is more than that.

snip

If people want proof that I can disagree with other people fighting for unlimited blu. Again, I'm in support of many things that players want if it's not at the cost of what others want.