Late to the BLU Party

[jon041065]

I can understand your point but it goes back to what I was saying in my post on the previous page. To you and others, what the spells have done in the past is a huge part of the identity of blue mage. I can agree with that one some level. Myself and others view blue mage as a job that can use enemy abilities and are fine with some concessions with the spells IF the end result still feels similar to us.

I don't think you were fighting against us feeling that way until this paragraph.

And yes, I do understand that what I asked could be taken as an aggression, but when people show that they absolutly don't care about some aspects of the job that are key to its identity, and get entitled about the job as to say that "all battle jobs should be able to do exactly the same stuff!", I REALLY don't have to be kind when asking my question.
A lot of people here absolutly don't care about BLU toolkit. When I ask if people would like the job to be butchered and stripped from a lot of its identity to fit the FFXIV mold, a lot of answers are simply "yes". So I think it's fine to ask what do they like about the job so much that isn't related to what they are fine with throwing away. And if you take that as an aggression or disrespect, then don't come on forums where people with conflicting opinions might question yours in a way you don't like.

I wouldn't say it's being entitled to expect a combat job to be available in the full game as all other combat jobs so far. You say that we (maybe you're actually talking about people that said they don't care at all idk) don't care at all about the toolkit because we are fine not getting the exact tooltip and function of the spells that they previously had. We don't care if it's not exactly the same but we do care that if feels similar. You used goblin punch as an example and are using the version that works base off the target's level. Would there be something wrong with using the FFT or FFTA versions? What about FFIX's version but using one of the character stats besides level for the damage calculation? Like "25% of your combined determination, spell speed, and crit" or something else. Not everyone would be happy if they did this obviously but it is a valid option for the future and they still could just have an alternate version of the job that's balanced and leave the meme stuff alone so that can still be enjoyed by those that want it.

[SDaemon]

I can understand your point but it goes back to what I was saying in my post on the previous page. To you and others, what the spells have done in the past is a huge part of the identity of blue mage. I can agree with that one some level. Myself and others view blue mage as a job that can use enemy abilities and are fine with some concessions with the spells IF the end result still feels similar to us.

I don't think you were fighting against us feeling that way until this paragraph.



I wouldn't say it's being entitled to expect a combat job to be available in the full game as all other combat jobs so far. You say that we (maybe you're actually talking about people that said they don't care at all idk) don't care at all about the toolkit because we are fine not getting the exact tooltip and function of the spells that they previously had. We don't care if it's not exactly the same but we do care that if feels similar. You used goblin punch as an example and are using the version that works base off the target's level. Would there be something wrong with using the FFT or FFTA versions? What about FFIX's version but using one of the character stats besides level for the damage calculation? Like "25% of your combined determination, spell speed, and crit" or something else. Not everyone would be happy if they did this obviously but it is a valid option for the future and they still could just have an alternate version of the job that's balanced and leave the meme stuff alone so that can still be enjoyed by those that want it.

Goblin Punch:

FFT : Damage = Users Max HP - Current HP
FFTA: Damage = [Rand128..384∗Damage/256] (50% to 150% of damage) * essentially the damage is going to constantly vary with no reliability.

How would either of those variants reliably work in a rotation besides spam on cooldown and hope the damage is meaningful?

[jon041065]

Goblin Punch:

FFT : Damage = Users Max HP - Current HP
FFTA: Damage = [Rand128..384∗Damage/256] (50% to 150% of damage) * essentially the damage is going to constantly vary with no reliability.

How would either of those variants reliably work in a rotation besides spam on cooldown and hope the damage is meaningful?

Goblin Punch usually had some variance in how much potential damage it could do so why is that a problem if we are trying to keep the same feel if not the exact same spell as past FF games?

Never said it would have to be part of the core rotation. Goblin Punch could be on a medium length cooldown.

Could put like a 25 sec cooldown on it and have it be something you hit when you get low on HP or be an ogcd attack with 50-400 potency.

[SDaemon]

Goblin Punch usually had some variance in how much potential damage it could do so why is that a problem if we are trying to keep the same feel if not the exact same spell as past FF games?

Never said it would have to be part of the core rotation. Goblin Punch could be on a medium length cooldown.

Could put like a 25 sec cooldown on it and have it be something you hit when you get low on HP or be an ogcd attack with 50-400 potency.

So something situational and gimmicky that either does a bunch of damage/no damage or inconsistent damage. Neither option is pleasant from a dps prospective, the second at least can be somewhat of a boon as it'd be oGCD but still wholly lackluster and would just turn into a press on cooldown and hope the RNG Gods are happy with you.

Honestly, unless it became a normal attack with a static potency or had a static potency buff based on a consistently executable behavior it'd just be a joke skill in trials/raids. FFIV and FFV had a Goblin Punch similar to this.

[jon041065]

So something situational and gimmicky that either does a bunch of damage/no damage or inconsistent damage. Neither option is pleasant from a dps prospective, the second at least can be somewhat of a boon as it'd be oGCD but still wholly lackluster and would just turn into a press on cooldown and hope the RNG Gods are happy with you.

Honestly, unless it became a normal attack with a static potency or had a static potency buff based on a consistently executable behavior it'd just be a joke skill in trials/raids. FFIV and FFV had a Goblin Punch similar to this.

I'm not actually advocating that Goblin Punch be like any of these examples but was trying to make a point that there are other versions of the spells and ways to work them into 14.

The HP one would have to work off a potency range with the higher range being when you're at lower HP. Could be something you used on cooldown or something you planned ahead to use like after taking a large hit. A possible issue would be people intentionally getting their HP low or having healers leave them low in order to get the most out of it.

The rng one would be fine as long as most of the blue spells were not like it. Just one would be okay imo.

Were you one of the people saying that the spells have to be how they were in past FF game or were you willing to have spells that felt the same?

If it were up to me, I'd go with what this person has for the spell if they make blu able to be a tank someday. https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...concept_pitch/

If blu remains a caster dps or can be melee, then I'd give it like 100 potency with chance to hit for 300 and then it's also earth damage for spell weaving/combo purposes like I described here. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-Blu-Concepts

Anyway, we don't know for sure if Goblin Punch is even in the game and how it will work if it is.

[SDaemon]

I'm not actually advocating that Goblin Punch be like any of these examples but was trying to make a point that there are other versions of the spells and ways to work them into 14.

The HP one would have to work off a potency range with the higher range being when you're at lower HP. Could be something you used on cooldown or something you planned ahead to use like after taking a large hit. A possible issue would be people intentionally getting their HP low or having healers leave them low in order to get the most out of it.

The rng one would be fine as long as most of the blue spells were not like it. Just one would be okay imo.

Were you one of the people saying that the spells have to be how they were in past FF game or were you willing to have spells that felt the same?

If it were up to me, I'd go with what this person has for the spell if they make blu able to be a tank someday. https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...concept_pitch/

If blu remains a caster dps or can be melee, then I'd give it like 100 potency with chance to hit for 300 and then it's also earth damage for spell weaving/combo purposes like I described here. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-Blu-Concepts

Anyway, we don't know for sure if Goblin Punch is even in the game and how it will work if it is.

You brought those examples up as counterpoints to Fyce's argument. I'm just addressing their flaws.

Neither of those situations would be favorable. It isn't just a possible issue, it would definitely arise as an issue in that people would intentionally try and keep their HP as low as possible to maximize their DPS and RNG DPS is rarely ever well received when the content demands you dish out as much DPS as possible within a set amount of time.

If BLU remains a Caster DPS? There has never been any precedent for SE to change the role of a job after its been announced let alone released.....

In that link the only one that mentions Goblin Punch is Flana. Alt? Either way their example does basically what I mentioned early, in that it relates to a potency increase based on a combo, something the player can control, not RNG.

You are correct in that Goblin Punch may not even be one of the available skills.

[jon041065]

You brought those examples up as counterpoints to Fyce's argument. I'm just addressing their flaws.

Neither of those situations would be favorable. It isn't just a possible issue, it would definitely arise as an issue in that people would intentionally try and keep their HP as low as possible to maximize their DPS and RNG DPS is rarely ever well received when the content demands you dish out as much DPS as possible within a set amount of time.

If BLU remains a Caster DPS? There has never been any precedent for SE to change the role of a job after its been announced let alone released.....

In that link the only one that mentions Goblin Punch is Flana. Alt? Either way their example does basically what I mentioned early, in that it relates to a potency increase based on a combo, something the player can control, not RNG.

You are correct in that Goblin Punch may not even be one of the available skills.

They were discussion/debate points. Brought them up mostly so we could discuss how the spells have had different versions before and ultimately why 14 could as well.

Yeah, I'm not fond of the HP thing myself. There's a move on WoW that encourages the player to take damage while it's active and it's not my cup of tea. It would be some different on 14 though and that seems to be all the rage with some people. They just want something different and don't seem to care what exactly it is. They are like Barney Stinson and believe that "new is always better".

The rng one wouldn't necessarily be poorly received but would depend on how well the rest of the job was balanced and if it the low end potency made it worthwhile or not.

At least we agree that it would be difficult to put in something like Goblin Punch in a traditional sense but myself and others are fine with spells that FEEL similar. They would probably need to have an additional function like how I said they could be elemental aligned for spell combos. They would need to be FFXIV's versions of the spells and not strictly just what they have been in previous FF games. So would still feel like a blue mage but be a different take on it.



When I said that blu might change role, I meant that IF SE makes a balanced version that they could have a different role. Either they would have to make a curated spell set for the job (remains as ranged caster), make it a separate job (different soul crystals) entirely, or make it multi-role with curated spell sets. They would probably go with that first one IF they made blu available in the full game but getting multi-role jobs would be fun.