getting kicked from end game pfs as soon as I join?

[loreleidiangelo]

Gonna skip over all the completely ludicrous and tangential talk about whether or not FFLogs is an invasion of privacy somehow and just point out that the vast majority of judgement that comes from bad logs only comes from PF parties and that in my own personal experience if you're looking to clear content while parsing in the grey just join a static. I'd hazard that 90% of them are like my old group and generally give a crap more about attendance consistency and personality than actual output. Not to say you can be total pants-on-head and still find a group, but I feel like a huge bulk of problems people have with "the endgame community" should be instead translated to "pugging sucks", which is true in any MMO IMO.

Yes, I know all of you work 60-hour weeks with 6 kids and a dog and volunteer at the local soup kitchen on your only day off in the week for 12 hours but I promise that if you scrounge around PF and the server subforums and Reddit you can find a group that will fit your schedule. Because here's the thing: a static will be interested in growing with you, because that has actual tangible benefits for them. A pug group? Odds are they'll never see you again, so better to minimize risk from the get-go and impress high standards from the start so as to increase the odds of success of a run.

[Beckett]

Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't mean you shouldn't want privacy. Maybe I don't want my specific contribution shared. That should be my prerogative. But hiding it immediately causes a reflex reaction of "you must be hiding it because you're bad."

In the context of joining a group for Savage raid content, I look at it more like applying for a job. When you're joining a clear party, you're presenting yourself as a qualified player. I don't think it's unreasonable for the party leader to "check your resume", so to speak.

"So, you're qualified for this position?"
"Oh yes, I'm very skilled!"
"Alright, let me just check your references...
Okay, I called your last job and they said you were fired for gross incompetence."

And if you don't bring your resume, you shouldn't be surprised when your potential employer is concerned that you're obfuscating your past job history.

[Stormfur]

If it were a solo duty, perhaps.
But this is a team effort! Everyone puts in. It isn't just your data, it belongs to the party you were with and every member in that instance has every right to look over the battle logs.

That being said, a lot of people here seem to think everyone is going to check parses first and everyone denies others for low numbers.
Take it from me, who's not exactly doing well this tier, lol. Nobody cares. I pug it up every week. Get my clears, move on with my day. Everyone's happy.

Then let me either opt in to share my data or let me anonymize my character but still show my classes contribution.

[Sylvina]

In the context of joining a group for Savage raid content, I look at it more like applying for a job. When you're joining a clear party, you're presenting yourself as a qualified player. I don't think it's unreasonable for the party leader to "check your resume", so to speak.

"So, you're qualified for this position?"
"Oh yes, I'm very skilled!"
"Alright, let me just check your references...
Okay, I called your last job and they said you were fired for gross incompetence."

And if you don't bring your resume, you shouldn't be surprised when your potential employer is concerned that you're obfuscating your past job history.

It's still a game, treating it as a job is absurd. Sure you have to show up on time for raids. but having to bring a "Resume" and being judged before people even get to know you is a cancer.

[KokoChibata]

This is one reason I dont do end game content that and Im just lazy

[WhyAmIHere]

It's still a game, treating it as a job is absurd. Sure you have to show up on time for raids. but having to bring a "Resume" and being judged before people even get to know you is a cancer.

you're exaggerating the dude's point to make your own seem more valid.
which is funny because the "applying for a job" thing works very appropriately for much of the game in a group-setting context.

Looking to join a static? K, cool.
"Where are your logs?"
"I have them hidden"
From this point, the static lead is entirely entitled to either pursue the issue, asking you why you have your logs hidden; and/or up to and including saying "we're gonna keep looking, thanks for trying." That's their right to do, and how anyone feels in this matter isn't relevant.
Or, they can give you a chance and see how things play out. From there, they'll decide whether you're worth keeping around, or getting rid of you and continuing to find people more suited to what their goals are.

In this case, the person being denied the group could complain "but I wanted to raid!" Good for you, you're entitled to do whatever you wish. But you're not entitled to have other people conform to your wants.
Just as much as that group leader is responsible for making decisions that best benefit the group.

FFLogs isn't toxic. It isn't inherently bad; it's a tool. Tools by themselves are not dangerous, but when a toxic person uses a tool in a toxic way, it's still the person that's at fault, not the tool.

[KDSilver]

Like we, on forums, had the answer to that kind of problem.
We never know the full story, and people rarely get kicked several times for no reasons.

[Miste]

It's still a game, treating it as a job is absurd. Sure you have to show up on time for raids. but having to bring a "Resume" and being judged before people even get to know you is a cancer.

I don't even run my static like this since I look at people's personality/attitude first and always try people out first no matter what logs say, but honestly who are you to say other players cannot run their own groups as such?

When you mix two totally different mind sets into one group that is when you get friction. That is why it is best to find groups that offer like minded players for you to play with.

Everyone has fun in different ways. If you take people who want to optimize, use fflogs, and have certain standards for their recruitment and have fun doing as such and mix them with people who don't care to optimize, don't want to use fflogs, and don't care how well they play their role then it causes both sides to not have fun and then frustration and friction settles in really fast.

There is literally no point in a static accepting someone who is below their personal standard choices because it is only going to cause friction and problems due to playstyles being mismatched.

Not saying personality/attitude doesn't matter, just that it is all encompassing. When groups look for members it can be a combination of personality/attitude and also playstyle/skill so that everyone in the group is around the same mindset, while some groups may even opt to only care about skill/logs/experience and not care much about personality/attitude.

So yes, it is a game, but some players have standards for things which affects their personal fun; so players who play less optimal and not care causes them to not enjoy themselves while playing so they avoid them for their personal groups.

Just like people who prefer not to use fflogs and not to optimize would prefer to just focus on playing however they feel like so they might actively avoid more hardcore fflogs players so they maintain their way of fun without being bothered by others.

In all honesty this is the best way to deal with this. Both sides need to look for and play with people who are like minded.

It is not a "cancer" to protect your own enjoyment just as everyone does be it casual or hardcore. If you see statics saying you need to show logs or ask for them and you don't believe in that then bow out and look for another. You also have the option to start your own group and make it how you want it to be.

I finally gave up and made my own static to get everyone as like minded as possible and tried to find good meshing personalities for everyone (so that the environment is fun/enjoyable and everyone gets along) and logs only secondary (while still trying to get people somewhat around the same skill level) to make a better environment for myself, my boyfriend, and my friends.

We have become a quite nice tight knit static now with the people we have and we have fun raiding and improving together. Sometimes you have to create what you want to get the best out of something.

[Stormfur]

Exactly what Miste said. You could have FFlogs that put you in the top 1%, but that's just one part of raiding with a static. It doesn't show how well you work with a team and other things that I'd wager are just as important to completing the raid on top of pure DPS.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

What Miste said is absolutely bang on. If a group wants to be a world first chaser, they need the competent players. As in, very competent players. Their prerogative to do so. I'm not interested in that so I won't join them. I am a personality and attitude first kinda guy when it comes to leading a group. I want a static that'll gel well, that has a laugh (I mean look at NEST, do they even optimise?), etc. Atmosphere first, performance second (we can work with weak performance, but working around someone who doesn't fit into the static at all, can't work with that myself). But for those who are performance first, atmosphere second, keep doing what you do! There's markets for groups that are atmosphere only, performance only, and everything in between. Find what suits you.

I consider PFs to be like my last job I had where you were sent out to companies via the agency. You had to be interviewed for each one and prove your competence. FFLogs is your CV there. Every group leader will expect different levels of competence (just like every interviewer IRL will expect different levels of competence). Sure, you can pull the "But FFXIV isn't a job" and you'd be right, but the competence aspect still holds water due to the way personalities leak between IG and IRL.