getting kicked from end game pfs as soon as I join?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The easy fix would be make fflogs opt in not out.

as for the groups performance and who owns the data then i think that comes down to how the data is presented. I mean the new GDPR privacy thing basically says you cant hold or use any data that can be identifiable without express consent of the individual being identified..

that said what you could do is upload your parses if you want but any players who hadn't opted in or consented to fflogs would have to be anonymised so anyone looking at that particular parse would just see monk or dragoon. and while they could see how that monk or dragoon or entire performed they wouldnt be able to identify them without consent...


thing is doing this would eliminate a ton of the negative stigma around logs and parsers in general. and it would still allow players who wanted to show off or compete for high numbers or super fast kills. the chance to have some bragging rights. while at the same time preventing it from being misused on random players who have no interest in the site

It would also allow bad players to sneak their way into parties and waste people's time. This notion bad FFlog parses will lead to wanton kicks from pug groups is a boogeyman created by bad players trying to deflect responsibility. It simply doesn't happen. At least not with any regularity. The only time your FFlogs page may be held against you is if you're joining weekly clear parties and have never parsed above 20%. And in that case, you're a liability to the group. Stay in learning groups and learn how to perform your job better in harder content instead of wasting other people's time because you couldn't be bothered to do better. If you're relatively consistent, even if your numbers are average at best, this will never be an issue for you.

if fflogs didnt have tens of thousands of parses for everything from extreme primals to normal mode raids to expert roulette dungeons i might agree with you.

Just because categories doesn't mean they are treated equally. Some groups like to meme around with Primals, however parses from there aren't treated as anything noteworthy. If you look at any static recruitment page or discord, they will want your Savage experience. When it comes to FFlogs, Savage is the only thing people treat seriously, Ultimate notwithstanding.

[whiskeybravo]

This notion bad FFlog parses will lead to wanton kicks from pug groups is a boogeyman created by bad players trying to deflect responsibility. It simply doesn't happen. At least not with any regularity.

With regularity being the caveat, even I have participated in kicking gray SAMs out of my PFs. Multiple times. BLM too. Like, if you got 8 kills of o9s but aren't even breaking 5k as a SAM or BLM - You just got carried. Now I don't always kick people, it depends what friends I'm running with because some are more hardcore than others. It depends if we're trying to farm or just trying to clear (like weekly clears on alt characters).

Due consideration, IMO someone that's pugging every week is a lot worse off because I know the kinda bs things that can go wrong in a pug environment, so it may not always be their fault. But, I also know that good players can still perform at a high level even in a bad group. Just have to judge on a case by case basis.

As for hiding logs.. IDK I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt for a couple of pulls at least, but in general I think you'd only hide them if you had something to hide, so it can be a red flag for people.

What happens when a player who was in learning groups and started bad, is now skilled, and tries to move up?

Do that hey have this albatross of fflogs from when they were in those learning groups still following then forward?

I think it can. But, if you display a fair amount of confidence in yourself, and willingness to take advice and improve, and then actually follow through with it, it will generally work out fine. My static SMN started out rather middle of the road, but I gave her a chance because I wanted a SMN for our caster spot, and now 2 raid cycles later she's consistently the highest DPS in the group. It's not always going to work out, of course, but if you're determined to make it happen then you got a good shot of getting there.

[Ilan]

I'm kind of ambivalent about FFlogs anyway. On one hand, I can understand why someone running savage-level raids would want to know the general skills of the players in their party. For PF though it seems kind of like overkill.

On the other hand, that's MY data that I didn't give anyone permission to use. I don't like that just a facet of your performance can be ripped out of your hands like that and uploaded for the world to see without you having any say in it.

OP I'm not sure what to tell you.. there have been times when people get kicked because the raid leader's friend is on and they want to get them a clear or something like that. Nothing personal to you, but that doesn't make it sting any less, I know. I main SAM on my main character too so if I got kicked JUST for being a SAM, well, it's their loss.

In which world is something that is listed in every battlelog of your parties YOUR data? This is like saying that everything you write in all chats is YOUR data too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Moonlite]

In which world is something that is listed in every battlelog of your parties YOUR data? This is like saying that everything you write in all chats is YOUR data too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Look at it this way. If SE had wanted everyone to know their data they would have put a tool in that allows that. Not enough info to tell if this was the cause of the OPs problem.



But that scenario definitely falls into the "don't ask, don't tell" situation. If it was happening regularly and SE stance on harassment. Players could be looking at some game wide unwanted repercussions.

[Ilan]

Look at it this way. If SE had wanted everyone to know their data they would have put a tool in that allows that. Not enough info to tell if this was the cause of the OPs problem.



But that scenario definitely falls into the "don't ask, don't tell" situation. If it was happening regularly and SE stance on harassment. Players could be looking at some game wide unwanted repercussions.

There is already a tool, called BATTLELOG. Its just that it would be way to much work to read it out properly, thats what the parser does and fflogs is just keeping record of what happened in the fight.

But what i find way more interesting is that most people share literally everything on socialmedia but they almost start a riot when people see how they do in a videogame.

@Andevom if you read correctly what i wrote you would've seen that i was strictly refering to the chat everyone can see. If i write something in the All, Shout, Party or Yell chat i know that everyone can see it and i don't really care if people could look up what i wrote in there, just like i don't care if people see my logs or not. Nothing of that is somewhere near MY private data, its stuff from a videogame and nothing more.

[Moonlite]

There is already a tool, called BATTLELOG. Its just that it would be way to much work to read it out properly, thats what the parser does and fflogs is just keeping record of what happened in the fight.

But what i find way more interesting is that most people share literally everything on socialmedia but they almost start a riot when people see how they do in a videogame.

If someone wanted to read through the battle logs. That are saved on their system that is fine. But unless I missed an update, isn't that info wiped from you when you log out? Also it sure looks to me like FFlogs quantifies that info into another number. You can take it however you want though. It just seems like this ship has sailed along with a few other things in game that people would like to have changed. But I am sure you could almost write the response to what they would say, if the forums were flooded with people are being booted because of fflogs.



The social media thing. I am sure people allow what they are comfortable with online. I think people are a little to comfortable, but that's just me.

[Stormfur]

=

But what i find way more interesting is that most people share literally everything on socialmedia but they almost start a riot when people see how they do in a videogame.

I don't have a horse in this race (I don't raid savage), but I think the key difference here is...what I share on social media is between myself and those I trust. What is on FFLogs is available to anyone. As best as I can tell, all of us who play this game have given the rights of our characters and everything about them over to Square-enix when we signed up, but not to anyone outside of that.

[Dzian]

In which world is something that is listed in every battlelog of your parties YOUR data? This is like saying that everything you write in all chats is YOUR data too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The world we all live in. GDPR

What constitutes personal data?
The GDPR applies to ‘personal data’, meaning any information relating to an identifiable person who can be directly or indirectly identified in particular by reference to an identifier. This definition provides for a wide range of personal identifiers to constitute personal data, including name, identification number, location data or online identifier, reflecting changes in technology and the way organisations collect information about people.

so yeah pretty much anything i say in the chat log is personal data. just the same as any post i make on facebook is personal data... anyhting that can be referenced to an identifiable individual is considered personal data.

so technically fflogs is in breach of GDPR as its using identifiable information without consent. and thus should be anonymised for anyone who has not Opted-In

[Ilan]

The world we all live in. GDPR



so yeah pretty much anything i say in the chat log is personal data. just the same as any post i make on facebook is personal data... anyhting that can be referenced to an identifiable individual is considered personal data

Yeah uhm how do logs identify you as a person? Logs only show what you did with your pixels in a game. Your real identity is no where listed there.

[Dzian]

Yeah uhm how do logs identify you as a person? Logs only show what you did with your pixels in a game. Your real identity is no where listed there.

What constitutes personal data?
The GDPR applies to ‘personal data’, meaning any information relating to an identifiable person who can be directly or indirectly identified in particular by reference to an identifier. This definition provides for a wide range of personal identifiers to constitute personal data, including name, identification number, location data or online identifier, reflecting changes in technology and the way organisations collect information about people.

bolded it for you. (your characters name is an identifier)