Late to the BLU Party

[Zareshi]

I was encouraged to crosspost this from the subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...the_blu_party/
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Late post because of the holiday, but now that the initial shock/hype around BLU has died down some, and I've had some time to think about it, I wanted to toss my hat into the ring. To be upfront, I can see that they're trying to go in a new direction, and personally I feel this direction is underwhelming, given their track record of content.

To begin with, here's what we know about Blue Mage:

• First Limited Job
  
• Level cap of 50, raises upon future patches
  
• New Job Quests on release
  
• Ranged Caster
  
• Designed for Solo Play, "Not Suited for Parties"
  
• Inaccessible Duties:

-Duties Requiring Matchmaking
-Roulettes
-PvP
-Deep Dungeons
-"Other duties not listed may not be accessible by blue mages"

• Progression via open world grinding intended
  
• Masked Carnivale, level 50 arena gauntlet for BLU only
  
• "Rarely" learns techniques by witnessing them.
  
• 49 abilities upon release, 24 equippable

So what we're given, is a job that appears counter intuitive to the MMO aspect of a MMORPG. While I don't deny there aren't solo players out there, and those that are excited for this content, I can't help but be underwhelmed by it. I can't think of any open world content that BLU is limited to that isn't soloable easily by any other job, albeit every other job lacks the flavor that BLU will bring.

Aside from what could potentially be a larger scale atma grind, the only point of interest in BLU content is the Masked Carnivale, which we know nothing about besides bringing in elemental resistances and testing the abilities a BLU has earned. We don't know the rewards or replayability or even if there's a leaderboard for this content.

So, given all that why could this be a good thing? It could mean they're going to focus on expanding solo content. This could mean new exciting things, and something to breathe much needed life into older unused areas. This could also gateway to updating older areas with things such as flight which I know is something that many would like to see. This could also add some unique flavor to XIV, instead of just throwing a Final Fantasy coat over traditional modern MMO activities.

[Zareshi]

As for why this is underwhelming to me, is that the XIV team doesn't have the greatest track record with trying new things. Common examples are Diadem and Eureka, both of which were (pseudo)open world content and have either flopped (diadem) or had mixed community reaction (anemos/pagos/pyros). Part of the joy of a new job, especially one as hyped and anticipated as BLU, is playing it with your friends, across all content. It can be all fun and games running old content to get your abilities, but then once those are learned you have to choose between your friends or BLU, and that's a poor decision to make. Locking it out of content feels like the wrong way to go. It can still function in groups and specialize as a solo class for both parties interested in it.

Some of the main hurdles mentioned are things like it'd be impossible to balance all the different abilities for group play, or balancing the abilities for higher level game play in general. That they want to avoid having players exclude BLU for not having ability XYZ. That Blue Mage doesn't fit with any party set ups. I find these to be weak excuses.

BLU is a ranged caster, it's a damage dealer with support abilities. We've solved where it fits in parties.

They want to avoid players requiring ability XYZ, my next point addresses that somewhat, but the player base will still theorycraft and discover what the optimal set up is regardless. Within a week of having BLU drop and knowing the extent of what it can learn, everyone will know "these 24 are the best to take with these 5 being situational and the rest of these are trash." (numbers as an example, inb4 these 24 or gtfo)

Balancing the different abilities around group play depends on how you approach it. In its current form, it's busted and it's understandable why it isn't in group play. Two common spells that I recall seeing pop up when discussing with friends:

Level X Death: Instead of allowing it to kill bosses, make mobs immune to it that you don't want cheesed. If they can't be killed by Death, turn it into a hefty nuke with a CD.

Bad Breath: ALL THE DEBUFFS FOREVER... again, make mobs immune to the debuffs. It has precedent with mobs already having immunity to stun, silence, etc. This would turn it into a cone attack.

This kind of leads into my point of how BLU could have been balanced, and honestly may have lessened the work load for the dev team. My thoughts do however slightly limit how Blue Mage would perform, which I admit slightly pulls from tradition, but will still retain the flavor and fantasy of a Blue Mage.

[Beckett]

As for why this is underwhelming to me, is that the XIV team doesn't have the greatest track record with trying new things.

This is the stickler for me. If BLU turns out to be a super fun and engaging new type of content for this game, that is supported for years to come, then that'll be fantastic. Depending on how good it is, the sting of it not being a standard job could even fade, in time. But I have little to no faith that this development team is capable of creating (let alone supporting) a new type of content that is both interesting and rewarding to play.

[TaiyoShikasu]

If BLU turns out to be a super fun and engaging new type of content for this game, that is supported for years to come, then that'll be fantastic.

The biggest of ifs.

[Zareshi]

Allow Blue Mages to learn as many spells as they feel up to putting in (currently the 49?). Instead of allowing each spell to be equipped, give the blue mage a spell slot for different things. An AoE, a single target, a heavy hitting nuke, and allow the BLU to pick what spells fill each slot. You can balance the potency on the spell itself and still allow the BLU to be... well, BLU. This isn't far from the idea of the Egi skins, and would even allow some customization between BLUs as some would prefer fire breath, some bad breath, etc. etc. BLU LB3 under this guise could be something akin to Mega Death, or even their choice of a primal ability (though that likely treads on summoners too much).

Every BLU would have that solo aspect of hunting new abilities, be unique enough to stand out, and be balanced enough to do relevant content with everyone. To fit in with current designs, give'em a bar to fill to maybe augment their spells, or allow access to the higher tiered BLU spells.

There you have it though, a basic outline for one of many ways BLU could have been implemented and still be a balanced job. XIV is a different beast than the single player RPGs, and also its own thing from XI. Bringing in old fan favorites can be done without having to cling to how it was done in the past.

People want them to try new things, but this isn't it. When I see people talking about being tired of the formula XIV uses, it isn't regarding jobs, its about how the content is released. Every time we get story, 1-2 dungeons, 1 trial, 1 new raid. It's never a question of what we're getting. Trying something new with a job, but effectively cutting it down with a level cap and ability to play with others goes against what MMOs are.

I don't want to see more limited jobs, because it gives the dev team an out to be lazy with creating new jobs. There's a job I absolutely am dying to get in XIV, and it's been suggested as a potential limited job, and that kills me. I will still play BLU in its current form, but I'd rather wait and receive a full job that can be played in all content and be enjoyed with friends, than a side project that keeps me away from everyone and eventually becomes obsolete. I shouldn't have to make the choice to play with or without my friends in a MMO.

[Musashidon]

I don't want to see more limited jobs, because it gives the dev team an out to be lazy with creating new jobs.

i don't get this argument as this is the more creative idea and not the less.

they aren't being lazy about creating new jobs and this doesn't mean the one you want will be a limited job, yoshi p years ago stated this is how he wanted this one specifically implemented.

how is making the job able to actually use monster skills vs making skills after monster skills where like bad breath would make the target take 20% more damage for 30 seconds on a cool down of 160 seconds less creative? and not only that why is creativity the main factor? summoner supposedly isnt creative nor dark knight so why is this now the one that breaks the horses back?

I shouldn't have to make the choice to play with or without my friends in a MMO.

who made you make this choice? like seriously? this is super exagerated i am not saying there isn't any degree of truth to this as it does make people who wanted to raid end game with blu not be able to but how does it like flop to a full blown i can't play at all with my friends if i play blu, the whole idea is for you to play with your friends and learn the skills together either with a whole party of blu or some people as blu and some on other jobs to help the run go smooth.

[Zareshi]

i don't get this argument as this is the more creative idea and not the less.

they aren't being lazy about creating new jobs and this doesn't mean the one you want will be a limited job, yoshi p years ago stated this is how he wanted this one specifically implemented.

how is making the job able to actually use monster skills vs making skills after monster skills where like bad breath would make the target take 20% more damage for 30 seconds on a cool down of 160 seconds less creative? and not only that why is creativity the main factor? summoner supposedly isnt creative nor dark knight so why is this now the one that breaks the horses back?



who made you make this choice? like seriously? this is super exagerated i am not saying there isn't any degree of truth to this as it does make people who wanted to raid end game with blu not be able to but how does it like flop to a full blown i can't play at all with my friends if i play blu, the whole idea is for you to play with your friends and learn the skills together either with a whole party of blu or some people as blu and some on other jobs to help the run go smooth.

I feel it's less creative because you can take your base job concept and leave it at that. You don't have to expend any effort to balance or bring it in line with other jobs. BLU's concept is unique and creative enough by learning your abilities from monsters. Can you link me where he said that was how he specifically wanted BLU implemented? I can only recall him saying BLU would be very difficult to do.

Creativity isn't the main factor, but I'd rather wait and receive a job I can enjoy with friends in any content, old or new. Personally I find they got creative with summoner, considering it isn't like any other summoner class in the series, Dark Knight too. DRK didn't really change beyond a shift in what the job has traditionally done, but why is it BLU is where they've suddenly decided "no, we must adhere to what the job traditionally is" ?

As for the decision to play with my friends or not, once I've dragged them into old content to help learn abilities, and they want to go do something else. Something in Heavensward or Stormblood, or Shadowbringers with that on the horizon. Dungeons, maps, HoH, hunts, trials, raids, alliance raids, PvP, I have to make the choice. Do I stay on blue mage, or do I play with my friends? Why am I being forced to make that decision when it could have been built to be included from the start?

[Musashidon]

Can you link me where he said that was how he specifically wanted BLU implemented? I can only recall him saying BLU would be very difficult to do.

i will say it's not quite i want it this way, but he was concerned with how it was to be implemented at all. course i guess that can be said with all jobs.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/191993

0:53:21
Q: I love the blue mage job that appears in the FINAL FANTASY series. Will the blue mage job ever be implemented in FFXIV?
A: I think that blue mage is an interesting job because you can learn spells from enemies, but honestly I don't think that it really fits MMORPG party settings. If anything, I think it would work solo and it would be really fun to implement it as a job where you go around and learn abilities from every monster, so I'd definitely like to try and do this, but I'm concerned when it comes to playing in a party players would put up barriers if you haven't learned certain abilities. Additionally, in the event you are able to use abilities forever once you learn them, the difficulty of learning abilities would be high, and we wouldn't be able to balance the system so it wouldn't revolve around procuring your abilities instead of equipment. This wouldn't be practical enough to fit in an MMORPG party setting and conversely if you are swapping in only certain abilities you've learned, the true image of a blue mage would diminish, so this is something that I am concerned with.

Something in Heavensward or Stormblood, or Shadowbringers with that on the horizon. Dungeons, maps, HoH, hunts, trials, raids, alliance raids, PvP, I have to make the choice. Do I stay on blue mage, or do I play with my friends? Why am I being forced to make that decision when it could have been built to be included from the start?

hunts you will always be able to do and even maps (now the portals for the rng part i would say no to at first till you get lvl 60/70 however long that is any speculation aside) (also i do get that being lvl 50 in a 60/70 area means you are weak and pretty useless even with op skills)

but i will say why is learning all your skills more important or just playing on blu more important than just going out and doing the content on another job? is it pride? stubborness? i agree with your point as blu could have started with a lvl 70 cap and just been unable to enter ex primals ultimate content and raids til shadowbringers to at least let you do everything you wanted also not letting blu into HOH or POTD seems odd as it would be blu true play ground.

with a higher lvl starting cap you could have at least had more content to enter and do with your friends and less welp i am out of luck have to change jobs.

[Zareshi]

This is the stickler for me. If BLU turns out to be a super fun and engaging new type of content for this game, that is supported for years to come, then that'll be fantastic. Depending on how good it is, the sting of it not being a standard job could even fade, in time. But I have little to no faith that this development team is capable of creating (let alone supporting) a new type of content that is both interesting and rewarding to play.

I don't have full confidence the devs can pull off the content for the solo job like they're aiming for, but I'm willing to give them a shot which is why I will still play the job when it releases. Maybe this will be the time we're wrong and they pull it off?

*snip*

Thank you for that, even though there's precedent with XI's BLU in upgrading both abilities and equipment. Going to a standard set of learned abilities is an inevitability, as much as I admire their desire for it to not be.

ARR Hunts which have diminishing returns, and with how fast they are annihilated it may be better to be in a higher level job that can better gain credit.
ARR maps have few if any items that are worth while, though can still be a fun diversion short term.

but i will say why is learning all your skills more important or just playing on blu more important than just going out and doing the content on another job? is it pride? stubborness?

Why is learning all your skills (on a job that currently revolves around learning skills as its main mechanic) important? It kind of speaks for itself. As for why play BLU when you could do content on other jobs is the crux of the argument here. Being locked away from other content means that you have to choose between playing BLU, for many a job that they have been dreaming of since 2.0, or running relevant meaningful content with or without friends. It's the choice of playing your dream job or playing with friends.

With the higher level cap, while allowing access to more activities, it's a half-step away from being a fully fledged job at that point and this "limited job" idea falls flat.

[CorbinDallas]

The Death thing really rubs me the wrong way, they already made NMs in Pyros immune to the Death L spell, so why can't they do this to Level X Death? Muh flavour? Get out of here.