Please stop making Eureka

[Annah]

You realize this is all content thats been in development for months already and they aren't just going to not release it.

It is being done by people. You may not like it, but that doesnt mean other people don't.

Might as well get rid of Ultimate, glamours, the quicksands, RP tags, and the like too.

Well...there are about 12 people who like it!

[Derio]

Pagos is a very strong gate. Perhaps one of the worst gates in the game in terms of proceeding in content.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

They threw every 4.45 items in the only 4.45 content. When was the last time a new item came from an old content ?

Patch 4.35, actually. New recipes were added for crafters, including all the otter stuff. They also didn't used to put RNG as insanely low as they did in Pagos. The Shiver emote has an estimated .2% drop rate. This is lower than even the EX Primal mounts. Granted, it seems they moved away from that in Pyros.

Yes, I loved that step for that single reason. You still had Myth Books, the Ink for Novus, Sacred water for the Zodiac, Mahatmas for Zeta...and the atrocious 24000 tomestones for the Umbrites...that I did three times. And slowly or not, tome farming is still doing the same thing over and over for days, especially since it the de facto way of gearing since the very beginning of 2.0. Give me Eureka as the main source of gear for 5 years straight it would also bore me eventually.

For simple math, let's round each dungeon to 100 tomes per run and each NM to 5 crystals. This equates to approximately 240 dungeons and 100 NMs. What exactly is the difference here except the former allows for multiple options in terms of different dungeons, trails, raids, beast tribes and an assortment of other activities whereas the latter isolates you to a single location with a narrow objective? NMs in Pagos also take substantially longer to spawn than most dungeons. Spawning Brothers last night, I could easily have ran through The Burn possibly three times. Regardless, you've simply exchanged one token type (tomestomes) for another (crystals). And you aren't grinding current tomes since if we had the old relic steps, you'll simply accumulate those along the way.

What irks people isn't necessarily Eureka itself but the one dimensional aspect of its progression. If you dislike this content for whatever reason, you simply don't have a relic to work on for Stormblood. And due to how its synced down, you cannot even go back later and mow through everything like you can if you liked the Genji set for whatever reason. I get it. You despise everything there is to do with tomestones, but they allow options. They also give us a reason to actually look at old content again. I literally have no reason to even touch 50/60 roulette. In fact, I hardly do roulettes these days because they serve no purpose. Capping current tomes is easier than ever.

Nevertheless, if people had an option; say you could take your the relic outside Eureka and do light farming through dungeons and/or tomes, you'd hear a lot less complaints. Now you have Eureka and people who dislike it have roulettes. Everybody wins.

[Reynhart]

Patch 4.35, actually. New recipes were added for crafters, including all the otter stuff.

For crafters, new recipe is new content.

For simple math, let's round each dungeon to 100 tomes per run and each NM to 5 crystals. This equates to approximately 240 dungeons and 100 NMs. What exactly is the difference here except the former allows for multiple options in terms of different dungeons, trails, raids, beast tribes and an assortment of other activities whereas the latter isolates you to a single location with a narrow objective?

The difference is that the very context of Eureka makes NM different than dungeon. Like I said on another topic, in Eureka, you can enter from solo to a full group and freely change job or group composition depending on needs, and there's a bit of randomness in how you will roam in the zones depending on the NM that pops. You also don't necessarily partake in Eureka for the same purpose, depending of what reward you seek (Train, light farm, challenge log or the, saddly, few quests), and mostly, there is a way higher sense of community in Eureka, with people more willing to talk and help each other. Another thing is that, again, you already run these dungeons for something else. I'd take 240 dungeons and 100 NM over 400 dungeons, especially since, from 2.0, I've probably done several hundred dungeons already.

And due to how its synced down, you cannot even go back later and mow through everything like you can if you liked the Genji set for whatever reason.

That's too early to really say that. Past relics have been nerfed to the ground so they were easily doable for very late people. Chances are Eureka will follow the same treatment come 5.0. Like I said, if you remove the elvl/ilvl sync and make NM like Hunt Marks, you'll be able to solo any weapon.

Nevertheless, if people had an option; say you could take your the relic outside Eureka and do light farming through dungeons and/or tomes, you'd hear a lot less complaints. Now you have Eureka and people who dislike it have roulettes.

Yet again, Relic is only one weapon option. So you should have people complaining that other weapons are also locked to a single content. The difference is that people still assume that relic is "for everyone", which is really not that accurate.

[HiroesX81]

umm k. I mean since you dont like it I'll tell everyone else its just not gonna happen anymore.

[Nariel]

snip

Oh its so different ?

You kill trash then you can do the boss. Do it three time GG you win tomestone.

You kill trash then the NM pop. Do it GG you win crystals.

You can exchange xxx tomestone to get your token, with x token you have your weapon.

You can exchange your crystal and the token from "insert fate name" token or echange crystal for the NM token and you get your weapon.

What change exactly ?

Light farm ? Yeah no, you go to the trash of your choise and kill the same trash over and over again or participate in the 8 same fate over and over. While before you choose the boss and kill it over and over so much difference...

Oh you can do anything else ? Yeah no Crystal only drop on fate, so do the NM token, yeah sure you can choose the mob you'll chain... Could be a trainning dummie and get the same result.

Tomestone ? Dungeon, raid of every shade from the 24 to the 8 man and from savage, tribal quest and even in Eureka itself. You could do a ARR or a HW style relic while still doing Eureka, you could do it while going in your favorite Eureka instance while chasing your chilling emote, T-rex mount, demon horn or whatever.

The decorum change ? Eureka the instance is the same for all the current step, don't get me wrong those place are gorgeous but don't make me believe seeing those six same panorama for weeks are so different than 10+ instances + tribal quest.

Relic is obtainable by everyone for the only cost of time, get over it you're embrassing yourself. A chimp could play in Eureka you won't see a difference.

[Reynhart]

Eureka the instance is the same for all the current step

It's not really because the way you deal with Eureka is very different depending on your level and your experience with it. You basically go from scaredy cat afraid of mobs looking at you to powerhouse that roam the map without any issue, being able to help people everywhere. Or from player lambda, being quiet and following the train, to Eureka veteran, providing advice or even leading the train. The community aspect is a very important part of Eureka, you can't sum it up with a simple "killing mobs for hours".

Relic is obtainable by everyone for the only cost of time, get over it you're embrassing yourself.

In an MMO, "time" is a real commitment that not everyone have.

[Fawkes]

They threw every 4.45 items in the only 4.45 content. When was the last time a new item came from an old content ?

All the time. They are always putting new things in the Gold Saucer, PvP, and hunts even when they didn't add or change anything in that content.

Although the Gold Saucer is the only one of those I like seeing new items added to.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

For crafters, new recipe is new content.

And they added nothing this patch cycle. Furthermore, those new recipes typically are incredibly easy crafts or use easily obtainable crafts, thus you can purchase them from the market board for cheap. That hasn't been the case with Eureka since Anemos. We'll see how common everything is for Pyros, but Pagos purposely went in the opposite direction purely to try and drive people into it not unlike PvP.

The difference is that the very context of Eureka makes NM different than dungeon. Like I said on another topic, in Eureka, you can enter from solo to a full group and freely change job or group composition depending on needs, and there's a bit of randomness in how you will roam in the zones depending on the NM that pops. You also don't necessarily partake in Eureka for the same purpose, depending of what reward you seek (Train, light farm, challenge log or the, saddly, few quests), and mostly, there is a way higher sense of community in Eureka, with people more willing to talk and help each other. Another thing is that, again, you already run these dungeons for something else. I'd take 240 dungeons and 100 NM over 400 dungeons, especially since, from 2.0, I've probably done several hundred dungeons already.

This is entirely subjective. You find it better yet that certainly hasn't been the online opinion—which has been near universally negative. Even from people who were alright with Anemos utterly despised Pagos. Regardless, this argument doesn't make much sense. While you may not be able to change jobs in dungeons themselves, they're substantially shorter. So you can easily switch every other run. In fact, I rotate jobs frequently in all content I do. That isn't unique to Eureka. It's actually made more tedious in Pagos due to the poor map design and Aetherryte levels. I wanted to switch to SCH from WAR. Well, I have to spent 5-10mins catching up with the train again. As for partaking multiple activities... how does Light farming, challenge log or train differ? They all revolve around you killing the same mobs endlessly. We spent a good 30mins at least killing Minotaurs by the hundreds. Light farming works precisely the same. Crystal farming? You're still killing hundreds of things to spawn a NM. Challenge log? Kill the same mobs. Everything revolves around the same activity with little to no variation. Dungeons may not be overly exciting but bosses do have mechanics. And trails and raids are significantly different.

No matter how much you want to argue it. There is no choice in Eureka, especially Pagos. You will be killing thousands upon thousands of trash mobs whether you want to spawn NMs, farm light or do your challenge log. They all revolve around killing brain dead mobs with zero mechanics.

That's too early to really say that. Past relics have been nerfed to the ground so they were easily doable for very late people. Chances are Eureka will follow the same treatment come 5.0. Like I said, if you remove the elvl/ilvl sync and make NM like Hunt Marks, you'll be able to solo any weapon.

I can farm Neo Exdeath right now. He is an absolute pushover at i400. Even God Kefka will fall over to a semi-competent group as they approach i400. With past relics even before the nerfs, you could catch up at a fairly reasonable pace because there was never anything gated. Did you start the Unidentifiable Step late? Whatever. Just start farming tomes and you'll be set. Eureka, on the other hand, gets ever more arduous because less and less people populate the older zones. Before people on the Umibrite step were still being funneled back to dungeons, thus anyone behind wasn't impacted. And FATEs are solo-able by design. You'll struggle immensely to solo any NMs in even Anemos, let alone Pagos. So you either hope the instance fills or wait until near the end of 4.x, or 5.0 and hope they make it solo-able. That is bad design.

Yet again, Relic is only one weapon option. So you should have people complaining that other weapons are also locked to a single content. The difference is that people still assume that relic is "for everyone", which is really not that accurate.

Even taken a face value. If a large portion of the playerbase assumes the relic is for a general audience, it will be incredibly foolish for the developers to say, "well, no. You're wrong." All that accomplishes is pissing off a larger portion of your audience. Nevertheless, the relic has been for the general audience. Not everyone but for a far larger crowd than Eureka. The intent behind it is playing the game normally will net you a powerful weapon and sense of progression. Eureka isn't playing the game normally but a niche activity. A perfect litmus test would be taking any other armor or weapon set and put them in Eureka instead of the relic. Does Eureka stand up or fall over? Any other weapon and Eureka gets ignored. It's the popularity of the relic that attracts people to it. How do I know this? Diadem. Even with gear competitive to Gordias, Diadem died almost instantly.

And you know Eureka wouldn't survive without the relic otherwise you wouldn't have dodged what I said. Let us take the Relic outside Eureka and progress it through other means if people so choose. If you prefer mob farming and NMs. Go and enjoy Eureka. If you'd rather do trails for light instead, by all means. Now everyone has a choice on how they want to progress. But you're afraid this would kill the content you prefer, which speaks volumes of its stability.

[Schan]

I do wonder if the devs ever thought of Eureka moving forward...

Because I don't know if you'll be able to solo it after it's outdated, unless it's insanely nerfed to the ground. It's just a reskinned old relic grind but with less options as others have pointed out. They should've known players usually doesn't like to be funneled into 1 thing nowadays. You could get away with it a few decades ago, but nowadays things are a bit different and from what I've seen Yoshi say he does understand this, so wth?

It seems the latest trend if having the game companies disappoint their players. I'm off to see if Warframe follows suit with the patch they've dropped today.