Please stop making Eureka

[HyoMinPark]

Where have we confirmed relics are aimed at the vast majority of the playerbase?

I see this thrown around a lot but I wonder.

Yoshida has stated that the relics were made for players who do not wish to raid, who wish to play solo, and who wish to get a high-item-level weapon without having to do difficult content such as raids. He said this when he was talking about changes to the Anima weapon compared to the Zodiac weapon around the time Gordias was the current raid and the Unidentifiable Step was the current relic step (in the same breath, he also explained that they were going to make the Anima’s item level lower than the Savage weapons).

That automatically makes it aimed towards the majority, as the majority do not raid and prefer to play the game at a more casual pace. By shoving it in Eureka, they made Eureka “content catered towards the majority” by default. And they only put it in there because the realized people wouldn’t touch the content otherwise—save for maybe a few.

Then he's self contradicting, because wasn't Eureka one of SB's biggest selling points?

That it was—it and Shirogane were advertised as the big features of Stormblood outside of the normal “new MSQ, new dungeons, new primals, and new raids”. It was advertised repeatedly pre-release, and even delayed because they worried Anemos wasn’t up-to-standards.

[Reynhart]

Yoshida has stated that the relics were made for players who do not wish to raid, who wish to play solo, and who wish to get a high-item-level weapon without having to do difficult content such as raids.

I clearly remember the bold part. Do you have a quote for the rest ? Problem, the "current relic step" you mention was exactly one that you had a really hard time to do "solo" considering you needed Diadem ingredients, and the 8 crafting specialties. And that at that time, the tome weapon was already available for everyone without having to do "difficult content", and was on-par with the Anima.

[Nariel]

Problem, the "current relic step" you mention was exactly one that you had a really hard time to do "solo" considering you needed Diadem ingredients, and the 8 crafting specialties. And that at that time, the tome weapon was already available for everyone without having to do "difficult content", and was on-par with the Anima.

And it was pulled out of Diadem and totaly untied from it because undoable for the casual core who were supposed to populate the instance. Totaly what await SB relic but as a whole.

[HyoMinPark]

I clearly remember the bold part. Do you have a quote for the rest ?

Just as mentioned in the patch notes, a long period of time will be required to complete Zodiac and Anima weapons, and they have been designed based on the idea that you will progress through the series at your own pace. Additionally, this content is strongly geared towards the element of time for players who are not into raids or other difficult content, or for those who wish to play solo.

There's also more on the Relics in that post; again, it gives the impression that the relic is geared toward those who do not raid so that they can also have a powerful weapon. Which would be the majority, since the majority do not participate in Savage but want strong gear for character progression.

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3494765

Problem, the "current relic step" you mention was exactly one that you had a really hard time to do "solo" considering you needed Diadem ingredients, and the 8 crafting specialties. And that at that time, the tome weapon was already available for everyone without having to do "difficult content", and was on-par with the Anima.

This statement was made AFTER the release of the Unidentifiable Step for the Anima; meaning it was after the step that involved Diadem. The Unidentifiable step gave you an i210 weapon - the same as Gordias' weapon.

[Reynhart]

There's also more on the Relics in that post

Thanks for the quote

Which would be the majority, since the majority do not participate in Savage but want strong gear for character progression.

The majority already have access to a high level weapon with the tomestones.

This statement was made AFTER the release of the Unidentifiable Step for the Anima; meaning it was after the step that involved Diadem. The Unidentifiable step gave you an i210 weapon - the same as Gordias' weapon.

Also the same as the upgraded tome weapon that was made available for everyone 1 month earlier. At no step was the Anima weapon better that what you could obtain easier and faster, except for the very final one.

I find that quote from him really strange. Taking so much time to produce it, talk about it, use it as a point to sell SB and put the relic behind it and yet suddenly its only meant as a small attraction for a niche part of the playerbase?

Only my PoV, but I feel lots of people felt disappointed that the Zodiac and the Anima didn't receive truly dedicated content since 2.0. Putting emphasis on Eureka is a way to sooth that complain. Eureka is also one of the only content that goes outside the "basic formula", which is also a reccuring concern about the game.

Without Eureka, this is all you have.

You also have Heaven On High and Rathalos. But if you look at the seven months prior to Anemos, you don't have that much more content once you remove EX Primals, Savage and Ultimate. So I'd say this expansion feel a little dry as a whole. And that's from someone who is actually busy with Eureka.

[HyoMinPark]

The majority already have access to a high level weapon with the tomestones.

Also the same as the upgraded tome weapon that was made available for everyone 1 month earlier. At no step was the Anima weapon better that what you could obtain easier and faster, except for the very final one.

The existence of the welfare Tomestone weapon does not mean that, suddenly, the Relic wasn’t intended for the majority of players to participate in and achieve. Another point in that same post that I quoted for you is that the Relic also serves to give players a weapon that grows with them. Tome weapons don’t do that—the function of the relic is multi-faceted, but it’s still aimed at the general playerbase. Not this niche audience that people are trying to claim.

By shoving it into Eureka, it made Eureka aimed at them by default. And, as I’ve said many times, the Relic (and the other shinies) being in Eureka is the only reason people even touch the content, and that’s something I think the developers realized when they were creating the content.

Only my PoV, but I feel lots of people felt disappointed that the Zodiac and the Anima didn't receive truly dedicated content since 2.0. Putting emphasis on Eureka is a way to sooth that complain. Eureka is also one of the only content that goes outside the "basic formula", which is also a reccuring concern about the game.

Eureka doesn’t have anything deviating from any other forms of Relic grinds in past expansions though—we have FATE farming a la Atma/Crystal step, token farming (the Crystals) a la the i260 Anima step with the Singing Clusters, and then light farming (a la both Zodiac and Anima). The only “different” thing that was done, was requiring you to go to a new area for it...which they semi-attempted with the Anima relic with Diadem 1.0 (major foreshadowing there). So that’s not even unique.

[Reynhart]

The existence of the welfare Tomestone weapon does not mean that, suddenly, the Relic wasn’t intended for the majority of players to participate in and achieve.

Ok, call me nitpicky, but nothing in the post you quoted says anything about "intended for the majority". It only says that the requirement will be "a long period of time" instead of difficulty, that for some people is also a hard gate. And, it may be assumption on my part but when he says "playing solo", I think he meant "without a dedicated group", since it's hardly reasonable to farm that many tomestones without doing any group duty.

Another point in that same post that I quoted for you is that the Relic also serves to give players a weapon that grows with them.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I can't find that part :s.

By shoving it into Eureka, it made Eureka aimed at them by default.

That's the problem, the official concept of Eureka does not match the concept of the old relics. So, people simply assumed that Eureka would be changed instead of the new relic being different, even if, between the Zodiac and the Anima, the purpose of the relic was already different.

And, as I’ve said many times, the Relic (and the other shinies) being in Eureka is the only reason people even touch the content, and that’s something I think the developers realized when they were creating the content.

You can't really say that. Assuming the relic wouldn't be there, they would have had to put another interesting rewards in it (Since, no interesting reward would kill any content), and we don't know what participation would have been on that situation.

Eureka doesn’t have anything deviating from any other forms of Relic grinds in past expansions though

Oh yes, it does. No tomestones required at all. And, for me personally, that's a huge selling point, especially since tomestones are already the main way of gearing making old relics basically more expensive tome weapons.