Please stop making Eureka

[Zojha]

[...] while Eureka, locking behind it the relic, was aimed at the vast majority of the playerbase.

The issue is that... this isn't true. Yoshida already stated that Eureka isn't intended to be for everyone. Reynhard provided a quote to that at some point. It's a fun one, because he compared it to a house of horrors, which is rather fitting.

And the relic is only supposed to be a grind-based alternative to raid weapons for people without the skill or will to do raids - it's the stated direction ever since people broke on Titan HM, you can find numerous quotes on that from Yoshida as well. It's supposed to be easy, but very time consuming, nothing more. Eureka fits that bill, niché content or no.

The fallacy people commit is that they think appealing to a broad audience is part of the relics design goals just because the previous relic steps managed to fulfill the design goal of the relic while catering to a much broader audience. It isn't. Unfortunately, due to the spread of the fallacy, it's something people take for granted, when it's actually something they should clamor for.

That said, though, the comparison to raids isn't far fetched at all. But it leads us to the question: Story mode for Eureka when?!

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

They're comparing the %s of people clearing the content. Raids cater to, let's be broad here, <10% of the playerbase. Eureka ended up having that many people who enjoy it, maybe even people who partake in it. That's where people draw the parallels, ignoring completely the fact that raids are meant to cater to such a narrow niche, while Eureka, locking behind it the relic, was aimed at the vast majority of the playerbase. So when, say, 2% of the players clear Savage, that's a theoretical 100% of the intended demographic. When even, say, 20% clear Eureka, it's a horrible, disastrous failure. That's where that that comparison fails.

Where have we confirmed relics are aimed at the vast majority of the playerbase?

I see this thrown around a lot but I wonder.

[BillyKaplan]

The issue is that... this isn't true. Yoshida already stated that Eureka isn't intended to be for everyone. Reynhard provided a quote to that at some point. It's a fun one, because he compared it to a house of horrors, which is rather fitting.

Then he's self contradicting, because wasn't Eureka one of SB's biggest selling points? That's not something you cater to a niche. Also, if it's "working as intended", why nerf it all the time? Why change things two weeks into release if the expected amount of people are running it?

Story mode for Eureka when?!

I really wouldn't mind this, given that the story locked behind it is something a lot of us were interested in since ARR.

[HyoMinPark]

Where have we confirmed relics are aimed at the vast majority of the playerbase?

I see this thrown around a lot but I wonder.

Yoshida has stated that the relics were made for players who do not wish to raid, who wish to play solo, and who wish to get a high-item-level weapon without having to do difficult content such as raids. He said this when he was talking about changes to the Anima weapon compared to the Zodiac weapon around the time Gordias was the current raid and the Unidentifiable Step was the current relic step (in the same breath, he also explained that they were going to make the Anima’s item level lower than the Savage weapons).

That automatically makes it aimed towards the majority, as the majority do not raid and prefer to play the game at a more casual pace. By shoving it in Eureka, they made Eureka “content catered towards the majority” by default. And they only put it in there because the realized people wouldn’t touch the content otherwise—save for maybe a few.

Then he's self contradicting, because wasn't Eureka one of SB's biggest selling points?

That it was—it and Shirogane were advertised as the big features of Stormblood outside of the normal “new MSQ, new dungeons, new primals, and new raids”. It was advertised repeatedly pre-release, and even delayed because they worried Anemos wasn’t up-to-standards.

[Vaer]

The original concept behind the relics (after the mythology/Titan HM step) was that it was supposed to be an alternative weapon for players who couldn't do harder content (Ex, Savage) for whatever reason. The tradeoff being that it is supposed to be time consuming instead to keep it relevant.

Sure, anyone could do the first two - but if you don't have enough time you wouldn't finish it before another easier to get weapon (tome weapon) would outdate the newest step.

I feel like currently the tier 1 tome weapon is more for casuals than the relic. 3 weeks of tomes, 7 weeks of clearing 1 normal raid fight every 6 months. Then wait however many weeks before they release the upgrade through the raid.

The bonus is that the relic isn't timegated like the tome weapon - you can do as many as you want if you have the time.

It just sort of ended up with the reputation of the casual weapon since it was mostly grinding mildly difficult content that mostly everyone could do until you hated yourself. Atma 1.0/500-1000 garuda HM clears was gross.

The difference now is that you can't sort of work on it while doing stuff you were already doing - which is why people have a problem with it - there's only one avenue to do it. They've mostly kept the concept the same (Eureka is super time consuming), light grinds have always been gross except now its stuck in a set of zones instead of the flexibility of the previous two relics.

This is a response to the "I'm sick of grinding tomes, can the relic be something else?" feedback. Be careful what you wish for I guess.

[xbahax92]

I dislike Eureka too. But in my opinion, the fault does not lie on Eureka itself. In my opinion Eureka is only a flop because the Dev Team didnt think of more content to do inside it. People already gave really good ideas, but yet they are staying adamant on their decision. It would be so much different if you could do daily quests, weekly quests, maybe add something instance wide people can work on? Like a Players vs Beasts, while you have to defend your base? Or simply do invasion times where mobs invade certain areas/aetherytes. Or why not implementing the Hunt in Eureka as well, instead of killing mindlessly mobs just to stack your chains. (and Im not talking about S/A/B ranks, I mean just kill 5x XXX mobs to receive your reward etc).

But there is indeed 1 fact that people should not forget. Eureka was a "big" announcement during the FanFestivals. And when you buy an expansion, its the same like buying a "ticket" for future content.
That ticket should grant everyone to find something they can enjoy. That ticket exists because people want something new, fresh, innovative. Beside the MSQ and new maps, the new beast tribe and new primals, every content is same and dried out as ARR and HW. Eureka could of been the one flower in the hopeless desert, yet all they did is a reskinned Diadem (except you have to kill regular mobs actually too to spawn FAT- erm, Notorius Monsters).
While I still think Eureka could of been THE content, they did not think thorougly enough to make it enjoyable.

[SkyEdge1]

This is probably my biggest problem with Eureka. Not that it's bad since its enjoyability is a moot point. But that it COULD have been so much better by doing only a few more things. It was so close to being the kind of thing that a great many people could enjoy, but instead, we ended up with something that ranges from "tolerable" to "not even worth doing." And that makes me feel worse than the content itself.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Then he's self contradicting, because wasn't Eureka one of SB's biggest selling points? That's not something you cater to a niche. Also, if it's "working as intended", why nerf it all the time? Why change things two weeks into release if the expected amount of people are running it?

Perhaps a better indicator is the sheer amount of rewards they stuffed in Pyros. Literally everything, emote, hairstyle, housing items and glamour are all in Pyros this go around. You don't do that with successful content. In fact, the only other content that sees stuff locked behind it more often is... PvP. Not exactly the company Eureka ought to be keeping. Regardless, we know Yoshida is self contradicting. Look no further than the recent job buffs. He swore up and down RDM didn't need a buff because it had Verraise. 4.4 rolls around and hey, look at that, RDM got buffed. A better example I found whilst digging...

http://www.novacrystallis.com/2015/0...naoki-yoshida/

For those who’d rather not dabble in raids, however, or just enjoy the typical MMO grind need not worry. Heavensward will have new relic weapons alongside the level increase to 60 which – according to Yoshida – won’t be nearly as difficult to obtain as the current Zodiac weapon line. The new relic will likely also see something around the timing of Patch 3.1 to increase its power – similar to the current Zodiac. “However, the Zodiac weapon is still for whoever wants to use it,” said Yoshida. “The players do have choices of other weapons that might be easier to obtain than others.”

This gives the impression the relic was intended for a more general audience. Time consuming, yes, but most people know that about MMOs.

I dislike Eureka too. But in my opinion, the fault does not lie on Eureka itself. In my opinion Eureka is only a flop because the Dev Team didnt think of more content to do inside it. People already gave really good ideas, but yet they are staying adamant on their decision. It would be so much different if you could do daily quests, weekly quests, maybe add something instance wide people can work on? Like a Players vs Beasts, while you have to defend your base? Or simply do invasion times where mobs invade certain areas/aetherytes. Or why not implementing the Hunt in Eureka as well, instead of killing mindlessly mobs just to stack your chains. (and Im not talking about S/A/B ranks, I mean just kill 5x XXX mobs to receive your reward etc).

And this is what makes me sad. Imagine if we had a NPC tell us to defend a certain location and it turned into an almost hoard mode style onslaught not unlike when mobs invaded Ul'Dah? It immediately breathes excitement because it's both chaotic yet interesting. If that were one of say half a dozen different things which could happen, Eureka would be so more palatable. Instead, they did a trash mob grind. It just comes across profoundly lazy and unimaginative.

[Reynhart]

Yoshida has stated that the relics were made for players who do not wish to raid, who wish to play solo, and who wish to get a high-item-level weapon without having to do difficult content such as raids.

I clearly remember the bold part. Do you have a quote for the rest ? Problem, the "current relic step" you mention was exactly one that you had a really hard time to do "solo" considering you needed Diadem ingredients, and the 8 crafting specialties. And that at that time, the tome weapon was already available for everyone without having to do "difficult content", and was on-par with the Anima.

[Nariel]

Problem, the "current relic step" you mention was exactly one that you had a really hard time to do "solo" considering you needed Diadem ingredients, and the 8 crafting specialties. And that at that time, the tome weapon was already available for everyone without having to do "difficult content", and was on-par with the Anima.

And it was pulled out of Diadem and totaly untied from it because undoable for the casual core who were supposed to populate the instance. Totaly what await SB relic but as a whole.