Can we discuss how abusive the GM department is when it comes to 'Grief Tactics'? A

[Thamorian]

Keeping hunts a secret and doing them with your own party solo is pretty much how the developers intended for hunts to be done from the beginning, so have fun! It might even inspire the community to go hunt more on their own. But resetting a mob someone has pulled in general, not just with hunts falls under griefing, so I doubt they're going to make an exception purely for hunts.

And if they did, how would it even be administered? No matter how long you wait, it's always going to be an "early pull" for someone. Does the guy who was super late get to report for early pulling because he took 4 minutes to get there when everyone else took 1? Does every S rank that spawns need to have a GM present who'll declare when enough "time" has passed for people to pull? You'll find yourself a lot happier if you simply say "ehh, I missed this one, I'll just be quicker next time." it's what I do and I don't have a fiber of salt in my being towards hunts.

You on the wrong subject. We aren't talking about punishing early pullers. We are talking about how GM should not punish those who reset. How would that get administered? By not punishing people who reset after someone else pulled early.
And just FYI, main hunt groups on my server who spawn 99% of the S ranks decided they would give 2 minutes and for the most part, people don't have a problem waiting 2 minutes before pulling and know they usually have 2 minutes to get to the hunt if they are responding to a callout. It's usually the same 2 or 3 people that responded to a callout that will pull early.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

You on the wrong subject. We aren't talking about punishing early pullers. We are talking about how GM should not punish those who reset.

My 3rd sentence says resetting any mob someone else has pulled in this game can fall under griefing/disruption. This includes hunts as previous topics and previous GM posts have attested to. They're not gonna make an exception for hunts as their stance & the OP's post have shown. A better solution is to ask Square to redesign hunts so early pulling isn't an issue.

Unless of course, you want to make resetting mobs in general an unreportable offense, in which case I'll be the first to laugh when the next "kill strong mobs" esque unlock quest has people resetting mobs left and right by trolls who get a kick of it.

[Jojoya]

If the early puller credit is wiped, oh well. You won't see any sympathy from me. I guess is the solution is for the spawners to keep all s rank spawns a secret if you want to take that stance. Let's watch the salt flow from the wider community.
And just because it's GM stance now doesn't mean we can't petition to get that changed. We are the paying customers after all and rules and laws change all the time.

As others have said, the marks don't belong to anyone specifically. There's no logic in changing the current rules in this case.

The server community does have some control over things if it is willing to work together. People will hold off attacking if a mark is pulled early - let the puller spend some time soloing it to give others a chance to get there. Resetting might be against ToS but nothing says we have to attack just because we're present and someone else has pulled. As long as we're in a group and get in a hit before the mark dies, we get our credit. Let the early puller do most of the work if they're in such a rush they can't wait a reasonable amount of time.

The community has the ability to exclude known early pullers from linkshells that relay. It's hard to be an early puller when you're one of the last ones there because you were relying on someone else to manually let you know the target was up. Most wise up and realize they're missing out on more than they've gained.

It's not to say that groups need to wait an excessively long time. We usually allow 5 minutes between the initial relay and the pull for S ranks. That's plenty of time for the relay to spread and people to get to the mark even if they have an older machine with loading issues.

It's up to the realm community. The larger the community, the harder it will be to get people to cooperate but it is possible. If there is something that SE needs to do, it would be scale S marks based on the number of people present in the zone just so the older ones take a little time to die.

[Thamorian]

My 3rd sentence says resetting any mob someone else has pulled in this game can fall under griefing/disruption. This includes hunts as previous topics and previous GM posts have attested to. They're not gonna make an exception for hunts as their stance & the OP's post have shown. A better solution is to ask Square to redesign hunts so early pulling isn't an issue.

Unless of course, you want to make resetting mobs in general an unreportable offense, in which case I'll be the first to laugh when the next "kill strong mobs" esque unlock quest has people resetting mobs left and right by trolls who get a kick of it.

Rules and laws are not something that can never change. If enough players wanted that rule change, SE would change their stance on a rule. As an example, players used to get banned from these forums for talking about and linking parses. Now people are able to talk about parses without being banned. And I would love it if SE re-designed hunts so early pulling was not an issue and would prefer that but I see a less of a chance of that happening over GM changing their stance on hunt resetting. Policy change vs re-coding how hunts work.

[Liam_Harper]

It is called "The hunt" not "The wait". There is no such thing as pulling early. If I find a hunt and want to kill it myself, I have that right. You have no right to reset that hunt, which would remove all my accumulated credit.

Correct. Fortunately, we do have the right to obliterate you from pretty much any active hunt LS or hunt group and spread your reputation as an early puller. Which the hunt community is rather strict on. Common courtesy will get you far in life when dealing with other people.

[JunseiKei]

"Difference of playstyle" is a nebulous term that basically allows people to kick whomever they want for whatever reason they want. I could legitimately kick you for having an ugly glamour and there is nothing you can do about it.

TBH, if I was kicked for seemingly no reason, you better believe I'd report it for grief as it'd be impeding my progress and enjoyment of the game. I'd probably get a GM asking me what happened, provide player names, times, instance, etc. Then it'd be up to those kicking players to back up their kick. If a GM ever saw conversation of "I don't like their glamour, kick them," "I didn't like their playstyle (maybe no dragon sight for them and complaining about it?)," I'd like to think those players would be served a warning in the very least. Players can kick for whatever reasons, but I sincerely hope there's consequences for the abuse when it actually is being abused.

You on the wrong subject. We aren't talking about punishing early pullers. We are talking about how GM should not punish those who reset. How would that get administered? By not punishing people who reset after someone else pulled early.
And just FYI, main hunt groups on my server who spawn 99% of the S ranks decided they would give 2 minutes and for the most part, people don't have a problem waiting 2 minutes before pulling and know they usually have 2 minutes to get to the hunt if they are responding to a callout. It's usually the same 2 or 3 people that responded to a callout that will pull early.

TBH, a while back, I solo spawned Safat (literally had only been myself and 3 low level questers in the span on 2 hours on Coerthas), shouted it and waited for my party only before pulling (which did not fill right away and probably took around 3 minutes from call to actually get there). I'd have been mad if someone had reset it. Loads of people were angry at the "early pull," shouting to reset it and blacklist me from hunt linkshells (was in 7 already, never got removed because I was one of the major spawners then), but from what I've read from your own posts, I was within my 'right' to pull the boss since I spawned it. However, the resetters (who would definitely be leeching as I've said, I did the spawning solo) wouldn't be getting punished, even if I lost all credit I had on the boss and somehow (for the sake of this post) received minimal credit (or even 0 credit).

(Which since that day, any Safat that I've come across or spawned solo, I've killed alone or with one other person. I still report the kills, at least.)

I dropped hunts altogether after it felt like I spent more time waiting on people to get there for a hunt that lived only 30 seconds (if even that long) after pull than actually playing the game.

[Paladinleeds]

TBH, if I was kicked for seemingly no reason, you better believe I'd report it for grief as it'd be impeding my progress and enjoyment of the game. I'd probably get a GM asking me what happened, provide player names, times, instance, etc. Then it'd be up to those kicking players to back up their kick. If a GM ever saw conversation of "I don't like their glamour, kick them," "I didn't like their playstyle (maybe no dragon sight for them and complaining about it?)," I'd like to think those players would be served a warning in the very least. Players can kick for whatever reasons, but I sincerely hope there's consequences for the abuse when it actually is being abused.

Nope, there isn't. They don't ask about it. They just slide it under the rug as "Difference in Playstyle". Absolutely no consequences unless they were abusive before kicking you. I got kicked once for explaining that we lost the limit break pulling a boss and that was why I said to use it before pull. Reported, got treat as "Difference in playstyle" and that the GMs couldn't do anything about it.

[Vnolan]

"Difference of playstyle" is a nebulous term that basically allows people to kick whomever they want for whatever reason they want. I could legitimately kick you for having an ugly glamour and there is nothing you can do about it.

Yep, I could kick you for being a Dragoon main for example, or because you're a miqo'te female.

Those are examples of prejudice and aren't allowed. Glamour, race, job, player name and the like have no effect on gameplay. You can try and make up some excuses to get around that, but with enough reports, the GMs will catch on to what you're doing.

[Fynlar]

Ok, and they shouldn't care if someone reset a S rank spawn too.

They do, and they should. Not equivalent, despite whatever you seem to think.

[Alleo]

If the early puller credit is wiped, oh well. You won't see any sympathy from me. I guess is the solution is for the spawners to keep all s rank spawns a secret if you want to take that stance. Let's watch the salt flow from the wider community.
And just because it's GM stance now doesn't mean we can't petition to get that changed. We are the paying customers after all and rules and laws change all the time.

But what if someone that came later (and not necessarily even the one that spawned it too), attacks it like everyone else but knows that a group of friends would love to have it thus manages to reset it. Some S ranks have bad attacks and lags with DCs too. Now imagine how it would be when you were fighting this thing for some time, someone resets it and thanks to some debuff you cant attack for some time or you are lying on the ground death and thanks to the reset you dont get enough credit? Wouldnt that feel as griefing for you?