Can we discuss how abusive the GM department is when it comes to 'Grief Tactics'? A

[alimdia]

You can't judge a rotation without a parser, because the other person can claim that his rotation style is better.
Constant deaths by being hit by mechanics is something else. But if he isn't being hit by mechanics you can't kick him for underperforming.

As said before different play style is a valid reason to vote dismiss someone.

I was being serious. People who did the work to spawn a S rank did not have to call out the S rank and let other people participate in the kill. GM's should not be punishing the spawners when they reset a S rank when a early puller complains, especially when the early puller would not of even been there to pull early had the spawners not called out the hunt. So spawners resetting a S rank should count as different playstyles and be allowed.

This is about duties though, not hunts. They have already said that open world monsters are fair game for whoever attacks it, and intentionally disrupting people killing an open world mob is punishable. This is why I said before you have to be careful with how you state your intent in chat.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You can't judge a rotation without a parser, because the other person can claim that his rotation style is better.
Constant deaths by being hit by mechanics is something else. But if he isn't being hit by mechanics you can't kick him for underperforming.

"Difference of playstyle" is a nebulous term that basically allows people to kick whomever they want for whatever reason they want. I could legitimately kick you for having an ugly glamour and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Paladinleeds]

"Difference of playstyle" is a nebulous term that basically allows people to kick whomever they want for whatever reason they want. I could legitimately kick you for having an ugly glamour and there is nothing you can do about it.

Yep, I could kick you for being a Dragoon main for example, or because you're a miqo'te female. Difference of playstyle is also used when the chat has no evidence as to why you were kicked, so if I silently kick you, it's a "difference in playstyle" (let's say I'm on Discord with a buddy and we use it to agree to kick you, there's no in-game evidence, thus "Difference in playstyle"). It's why it's useless trying to report someone for kick abuse, it will fall under that. Now if they're harassing or abusing you in-game, such as by calling you various sweary insults, then that's how you make the claim to the GMs.

[Thamorian]

I'm sure GMs really don't care about who spawned a S rank.

Ok, and they shouldn't care if someone reset a S rank spawn too. Early pullers don't have a right to complain about resetting if they wouldn't even be there had spawners not spawned the s rank and called it out. To say they do is to say they have an entitlement to others peoples time and work.

"Waaaaah waaaaah Mr. GM! He reset a S rank I pulled early even though he spawned and called out the S rank so people like me could participate in and share credit too and I wouldn't even be here had they not called the s rank out!"

See how entitled that sounds? Now we talking salt from early pullers whining about s ranks being reset.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Ok, and they shouldn't care if someone reset a S rank spawn too. Early pullers don't have a right to complain about resetting if they wouldn't even be there had spawners not spawned the s rank and called it out. To say they do is to say they have an entitlement to others peoples time and work.

"Waaaaah waaaaay Mr. GM! He reset a S rank I pulled early even though he spawned and called out the S rank so people like me could participate in and share credit too and I wouldn't even be here had they not called the s rank out!"

See how entitled that sounds?

The difference here is that resetting a mob actually wipes out the credit that person has made to the rewards from said mob, thus they get the right to complain about you with no entitlement needed; it's literally how the game is programmed, on top of being the official stance of the GMs and as a result, reportable.

It's as I said it before. No one "owns" the mob when it spawns; if a group wants to share it with the community, then they have to deal with the fact there'll be early pullers. A simple case of help as many as you can and simply let it go if it gets early pulled; move onto spawning the next one.

[Thamorian]

The difference here is that resetting a mob actually wipes out the credit that person has made to the rewards from said mob, thus they get the right to complain about you with no entitlement needed; it's literally how the game is programmed, on top of being the official stance of the GMs and as a result, reportable.

It's as I said it before. No one "owns" the mob when it spawns; if a group wants to share it with the community, then they have to deal with the fact there'll be early pullers. A simple case of help as many as you can and simply let it go if it gets early pulled; move onto spawning the next one.

If the early puller credit is wiped, oh well. You won't see any sympathy from me. I guess is the solution is for the spawners to keep all s rank spawns a secret if you want to take that stance. Let's watch the salt flow from the wider community.
And just because it's GM stance now doesn't mean we can't petition to get that changed. We are the paying customers after all and rules and laws change all the time.

[Paladinleeds]

If the early puller credit is wiped, oh well. You won't see any sympathy from me. I guess is the solution is for the spawners to keep all s rank spawns a secret if you want to take that stance. Let's watch the salt flow from the wider community.

Their narrative however is there's no such thing as an early pull. If you think you can take it, then take it. Resetting however is against ToS as it's considered a griefing tactic. That's been SE's stance from the beginning, so I hope they do change it so that once someone pulls a hunt mob, no other parties can get any credit even if they do 99% of the damage. Like how all other open world mobs (outside of FATEs work). And if people get salty, then have YoshiP tell them to "git gud and get the hunts yourself."

EDIT: Perhaps they could make it so that once a hunt mob is pulled, it works like certain duty mobs where it says "This mob is a part of another person's duty" and won't let you attack it if you're not in their party, in order to avoid resetting to try and then claim the tag yourself.

[Thamorian]

Their narrative however is there's no such thing as an early pull. If you think you can take it, then take it. Resetting however is against ToS as it's considered a griefing tactic. That's been SE's stance from the beginning, so I hope they do change it so that once someone pulls a hunt mob, no other parties can get any credit even if they do 99% of the damage. Like how all other open world mobs (outside of FATEs work). And if people get salty, then have YoshiP tell them to "git gud and get the hunts yourself."

EDIT: Perhaps they could make it so that once a hunt mob is pulled, it works like certain duty mobs where it says "This mob is a part of another person's duty" and won't let you attack it if you're not in their party, in order to avoid resetting to try and then claim the tag yourself.

SE may not recognize early pulling as a thing and not punish for it, but the community does recognize it as a thing so it is a thing.
SE won't take a stance about early pulling so they don't have a reason to punish those that do it. Does not mean the community can't recognize it as being a thing.

[Androir]

The funny fact: Why there is the reminder of abusing the kick vote system can be punished? Has this GM even read this?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

If the early puller credit is wiped, oh well. You won't see any sympathy from me. I guess is the solution is for the spawners to keep all s rank spawns a secret if you want to take that stance. Let's watch the salt flow from the wider community.
And just because it's GM stance now doesn't mean we can't petition to get that changed. We are the paying customers after all and rules and laws change all the time.

Keeping hunts a secret and doing them with your own party solo is pretty much how the developers intended for hunts to be done from the beginning, so have fun! It might even inspire the community to go hunt more on their own. But resetting a mob someone has pulled in general, not just with hunts falls under griefing, so I doubt they're going to make an exception purely for hunts.

And if they did, how would it even be administered? No matter how long you wait, it's always going to be an "early pull" for someone. Does the guy who was super late get to report for early pulling because he took 4 minutes to get there when everyone else took 1? Does every S rank that spawns need to have a GM present who'll declare when enough "time" has passed for people to pull? You'll find yourself a lot happier if you simply say "ehh, I missed this one, I'll just be quicker next time." it's what I do and I don't have a fiber of salt in my being towards hunts.