Quote Originally Posted by Nezerius View Post
My initial reply to your list even stated that it'd depend on how much of a grind it'd be. Just because I didn't go into specifics then doesn't mean I'm moving the goal posts. But feel free to think that I have.
Your initial reply cited wanting the relic to release at the same time as the raid tier. You go on to mention wanting it to be like Heavensward. This never occurred, as demonstrated in my last response.

Yes, I'm sure every player will go on a month+ grind to get their relic armor, which, I might add, would be for one job. Players who don't go for the grind would still buy the crafted gear if they want to gear up faster. Players who grind for the relic armor, but also want to gear up alts, could also still be buying crafted armor.
I simply said the relic has never taken longer than a month outside extremely grind steps they ultimately did away with, excluding Pagos. Our only example of relic armor thus far is Anemos, which was considerably faster. Given the trajectory Stormblood has followed as a whole, it likely wouldn't be longer than a couple weeks. This does invalidate crafted and normal mode. The more gear alternatives added, the more inclined people are to wait for better things. If people know they can get a full relic set sans the weapon in three weeks. They're less likely to bother with purchasing one or farming Normal Mode. Now if you want to argue for relic armor that takes well beyond a month or releases 5-6 weeks thereafter... like Heavensward. It's another argument entirely.

Raiders would likely be obtaining their base tomestone weapons faster than the ones getting the relic (due to getting the tomestone drop). The base relic would still be i385 (5 iLvls lower than the base tomestone weapon), but you seemed to have skipped over that part of my post. The i395 version is only obtained after actually obtaining the i385 version.
I'd also like to remind you that the Animus weapon was added in 2.2, along with Leviathan EX. The Animus weapon was i100 while the base Leviathan weapon was i95, which could only be upgraded to i100 by obtaining a rare drop. Somehow, this didn't invalidate Leviathan at all, since I still saw people going for those weapons back then.
I did no such thing. You're choosing to ignore what I said. There is a cost with the tome weapon. Borrowing the Aether Oil step for example sake. It is far more efficient use of tomes to spend five weeks or less working on the relic, purchasing both your body/legs and another piece than spending them on a five ilvl increase. This renders the tome weapon useless, especially if the relic has more materia slots or customizable stats. The sole exception would be if it had trash stats like no Crit for Bard. The only reason the tome weapon has any value now is due to it being the only means of obtaining a weapon close to the raid weapon. This isn't inherently a problem... if the relic either has a longer grind or doesn't release with the tier itself. Five weeks isn't bad, but you could easily hasten the Aether Oil process through simply grinding dungeons for a week.

Just because XIV has never had relic armor before, doesn't mean that the game hasn't had relic grinds before. Take the relic weapon grind, replace it with a hat and you have a relic armor grind. I'd also like to point out that I mentioned the 24-man raid being a good way to get gear on alts (because few are crazy enough to grind for multiple relic sets), It's also another option for players who don't like the grind, but the idea of those people existing seems to be going over your head.
I mean if you want the precise same grind for each individual piece, by all means. People tend to complain... which leads to easier and easier alternatives. It's incredibly unlikely the devs would maintain the same lengthily grind for each piece as that slows progression to a halt. But it wouldn't impact anything as it'll take forever. I'll grant you that. Ironically, it wouldn't meet your demand to be more than glamour seeing as by the time you finish... the next patch will be out. So I don't exactly see the argument here.

So what? Let them complain. If they can't handle the grind, then there'll be less grindy options to get a weapon/gear. And as a bonus, primal/crafted/normal raid gear isn't invalidated!
Yes, let's bring back the step nobody liked. Raiders hated it because their gear wasn't even BiS despite it being significantly harder to obtain. And casuals hated it because the grind took forever—to the point the relic ultimately accomplished nothing. There's a reason they moved away from this.


And this is a good idea how? Just let players grind right away. There's going to be plenty of players who will find it too much of a grind, who will then go with the other options.

But at the end of the day, we're better off agreeing to disagree. You prefer relics being a glamour stick, while I'd prefer relics being more than that.
And there are plenty more who won't. Bear in mind, people too lazy to grind and aren't inclined to make gil either. Delaying the relic has always been to allow crafters a chance to sell new gear and to keep Normal Mode as the focus. I don't want the relic to be a glamour stick, but I also don't want it ruining my craft markets.

If you want an insanely long grind just so the relic can release immediately. Well, given past history... you're a very small minority. HW did things fine from Midas onward because no, I do not believe the relic should match the raid weapon until near the end of the expansion.