Make relics have the same iLVL as the Raid weapons and released at the same time

[Wijnand]

Isn't this entire thread about wanting relics on par with savage?

Just because you don't want to raid doesn't mean you need a 405 weapon. Just as much i am not entitled to crafting gear if i dont work on that.

You don't need the 405 stuff if all you do us dungeons. The way hw did it was fine. Pagos just ruined it. Weapons become useless every 6 months so making a 20.000 crystal farm is ridiculous pagos is already a farm too far.

[Nezerius]

Isn't this entire thread about wanting relics on par with savage?

I'm fairly sure everyone, other than the OP, is disagreeing with the suggestion of having the relic at the same iLvl as the savage weapon.

[Wijnand]

The only reason this entire thread exists is because of how much Eureka sucks. we are 6 weeks in our patch still no pyros. in around 8-9 weeks we get 4.5 for whatever reason Eureka is sucking up development time that shouldn't be used this way.

[Kazgrel]

The only reason this entire thread exists is because of how much Eureka sucks. we are 6 weeks in our patch still no pyros. in around 8-9 weeks we get 4.5 for whatever reason Eureka is sucking up development time that shouldn't be used this way.

Development time isn’t the only thing Eureka is sucking.

Postpone it indefinitely for all I care; I’d rather farm another Primal a hundred times or battle against savage for a better weapon.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

They don't have to reward them piece by piece, since they can just use the underused armor chest feature for this. That means they won't get the relic set until finishing the grind, meaning no gear rewards until that point.
Well look at that, those players suddenly have a reason to get some crafted or normal raid gear during their grind! Guess those two haven't been invalidated after all! Besides, y'know, gearing up alt jobs, because who would be crazy enough to go through the same grind over again for those?

And if they can't make that work, even though i380 really isn't -that- big of a deal (considering you can just get a full set of crafted i380 in a few days), then it'd be fine to just scrap the entire relic armor thing altogether. The relic quest chain had always been focused on working on improving a weapon anyway.

Correct... because you've changed the argument. This entire time you have maintained wanting relics which aren't "glamour sticks" yet your proposal here reduces it to previously that. If it took 3-4 months to obtain a full set, that means you've spent the entire patch working on obtaining i380 gear. How exactly is this relevant when a couple weeks to a month later, i390 would release, thus you're back to working on the relic set again? At this point, it's simply glamour. Which I mean, is completely fine. But it isn't what you were arguing. Even if we jump the gear to i390, by that point everyone will have geared their main with full tomestone.

Once again, you've moved the goal post.

Guessing your memory is rather foggy? The issue with the first set of anima quests was due to the fact that the weapon was the same iLvl as the Gordias raid weapon, and the grind had to reflect a similar time frame. They didn't change it because people hated it, they changed it because they lowered the relic to no longer be at the same iLvl as the current raid. In turn, that allowed them to relax on the time frame requirement on the grind.
Don't believe this? You can read about it in this post from Yoshi-P: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/276368
Added note: the relic being 10 iLvls below the current raid weapon (and 5 below the tomestone weapon) also fits with their concept of "Will not be the strongest weapon at the same time as the rewards for clearing the hardest difficulty content."

A "distinct minority" hasn't stopped SE from making changes or adding something to the game. The weapon in your signature is a clear example of that. I imagine the amount of players going for a long grind to obtain relics is significantly higher than the amount of players going for an Ultima Weapon Ultimate or Unending Coil clear.

Do you think they made that change for arbitrary reasons? They just felt like it out of the blue? No. They were numerous complaints because the general playerbase despised how long a grind it took. Therefore, the compromise was to increase the raid weapon's ilvl by five, thus allowing them to ease the grind down without making raiders feel cheated. Basically, it boiled down to an obscenely long grind comparable to the difficulty of Savage or an easier one but a slightly weaker weapon. They opted for the latter due to player feedback. They even mention said feedback outright. A change like this doesn't occur unless people complain. Look at Pagos. The only reason they are using Anemos as the templaye for Pyros is due to how much people detest Pagos. That doesn't if people didn't bombard them with ridicule. The decision to make the raid weapon better than the relic came as a result of similar feedback.

Unlike Ultimate however, the relic was never intended for a specifically niche audience, but the general playerbase. Therefore, if said playerbase overwhelmingly dislikes something... change is likely to occur. I need only point towards Pagos to demonstrate that. Regardless, I have little issue with what they did in Heavensward, including the Unidentifiable step. So at this point, we're arguing in circles.

The only reason this entire thread exists is because of how much Eureka sucks. we are 6 weeks in our patch still no pyros. in around 8-9 weeks we get 4.5 for whatever reason Eureka is sucking up development time that shouldn't be used this way.

I hate to say it, but I have a feeling they're delaying Pyros until after Fanfest...

[Nezerius]

Correct... because you've changed the argument. This entire time you have maintained wanting relics which aren't "glamour sticks" yet your proposal here reduces it to previously that. If it took 3-4 months to obtain a full set, that means you've spent the entire patch working on obtaining i380 gear. How exactly is this relevant when a couple weeks to a month later, i390 would release, thus you're back to working on the relic set again? At this point, it's simply glamour. Which I mean, is completely fine. But it isn't what you were arguing. Even if we jump the gear to i390, by that point everyone will have geared their main with full tomestone.

Once again, you've moved the goal post.

Yes, I surely must be moving goal posts again and again.

Oh wait, my 2nd post on page 4 even stated the following: "They could even raise the relic gear to i385 or 390 with the odd-numbered patch, if they decide to augment the crafted gear again (i380>i390, similar to the i350>i360 thing in 4.3)."
I mentioned i385 or i390 because of the likelihood of the gear having 5 materia slots, similar to the Anemos gear.

Do you think they made that change for arbitrary reasons? They just felt like it out of the blue? No. They were numerous complaints because the general playerbase despised how long a grind it took. Therefore, the compromise was to increase the raid weapon's ilvl by five, thus allowing them to ease the grind down without making raiders feel cheated. Basically, it boiled down to an obscenely long grind comparable to the difficulty of Savage or an easier one but a slightly weaker weapon. They opted for the latter due to player feedback. They even mention said feedback outright. A change like this doesn't occur unless people complain.

Neither of us know the exact reason on why they changed it, unless you can cite your proof that it was done because of how the "general playerbase" hated it. And no, a sentence that includes the word feedback that can vaguely be interpreted as players disliking something doesn't work, especially when said sentence also mentioned that they made mistakes with the difficulty of Gordias and the item level of rewards.
I'd also like the remind you that they recreated Diadem twice (Diadem 2.0, Eureka), despite the fact that players disliked Diadem.

Look at Pagos. The only reason they are using Anemos as the templaye for Pyros is due to how much people detest Pagos. That doesn't if people didn't bombard them with ridicule. The decision to make the raid weapon better than the relic came as a result of similar feedback.

Yes, they've stated that they're using Anemos as a template for Pyros.
But since Pyros hasn't been out yet, we don't know how closely it will stay true to said template. Unless you're hiding a time machine somewhere, and you're actually from the future (in which case, what are the new 5.0 jobs?).

Unlike Ultimate however, the relic was never intended for a specifically niche audience, but the general playerbase. Therefore, if said playerbase overwhelmingly dislikes something... change is likely to occur. I need only point towards Pagos to demonstrate that. Regardless, I have little issue with what they did in Heavensward, including the Unidentifiable step. So at this point, we're arguing in circles.

Despite the fact that it was made for the "general playerbase", the relics have always been developed towards the "element of time". A grind that people go through at their own pace. It even says so as one of the three concept in Yoshi-P's post: "Creating these weapons will require you to put in effort over a longer period of time."

[dmi]

inb4 Eureka becomes a raid with an ilvl410 weapon in march 2019.


(as like diadem before (ilvl280))



just my 2 gils

[Maero]

Not sure if the thread exists about how Eureka sucks but also on how delayed Relic was/is and is not even one but relevant, HW it was throughout updates and by the end it was bis.
Instead of this Relic being bis at the end it will remain POS this expansion, lol

[Hakuro89]

I'm actually happy their ilvl always lags behind raid gear, it means there's no reason for me to go in there. I knew right from the outset when they first started talking about how Eureka would function it was going to suck, now there's no reason to set foot in there. Hopefully they'll learn something from this and go with something closer to how the previous relics worked in 5.0.

[Aquaslash]

I'm actually happy their ilvl always lags behind raid gear, it means there's no reason for me to go in there. I knew right from the outset when they first started talking about how Eureka would function it was going to suck, now there's no reason to set foot in there. Hopefully they'll learn something from this and go with something closer to how the previous relics worked in 5.0.

You know it's gonna end up BiS again. It literally always does. The start of SB surely wasn't filled with people grinding fates in the Fringes with raid weapons, that's for sure. Glowsticks everywhere. Everyone had one.

In fact, I've even run into several raid statics that REQUIRE their members to keep up with the relic on time for this very reason. I even recall members of the server first Gordias group on my server leading PFs of grinding out unidentified pieces through Gordias NM.