Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Dualgunner]

Both are personal attacks. Bad isn't an assessment of skill. An assessment of skill consists on telling someone where they can improve. Telling someone they are bad helps nobody improve. Not even accounting for the fact the player in question could very well be doing their job properly while you are in the wrong here.

An assessment of skill requires no such critical feedback. A critique of skill would. An assessment of skill is just that--an assessment. An evaluation or estimation of the nature, quality, or ability of something or someone, as cited from Google dictionary.

Why nitpick this?

Because under the actual definition of an assessment of skill, "bad" definitely qualifies as an assessment and not a personal attack.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

It can range from someone legitly getting overwhelmed (someone who just switched to healer dealing with mass pulls undergeared)

So why haven't they bothered to get some proper gear first and practicing healing on lower level dungeons before diving headfirst into the newest content, where tanks usually mass pull?

But I'm going to be honest here, I don't do it because I respect others enough so that I don't waste their time when I queue into a dungeon. I do it because I enjoy setting the bar high.

So you don't respect others enough when you queue into content, but you want others to respect enough people who are underperforming?

From my experience, tanks that don't hold aggro or heals that don't heal to the point you can't clear a dungeon happen very rarely.

From the experience of many people on this thread including myself, it happens a lot.

Both are personal attacks. Bad isn't an assessment of skill. An assessment of skill consists on telling someone where they can improve. Telling someone they are bad helps nobody improve. Not even accounting for the fact the player in question could very well be doing their job properly while you are in the wrong here.

It's a neutral assessment. If people take it as an attack, not my problem. They should take into consideration all aspects of an MMO when they registered, including being assessed by others and having to keep a similar skill level to the rest of the party so they don't ruin other's fun in order for them to have fun.

[Mirch]

yep

here we go

[Gallus]

An assessment of skill requires no such critical feedback. A critique of skill would. An assessment of skill is just that--an assessment. An evaluation or estimation of the nature, quality, or ability of something or someone, as cited from Google dictionary.

Why nitpick this?

Because under the actual definition of an assessment of skill, "bad" definitely qualifies as an assessment and not a personal attack.

I'm not nitpicking, you are just googling definitions without taking into account the context here. Calling someone bad in a videogame is not an assessment of skill.

[gamepob]

I re-started playing FF a couple of weeks ago, so consider me a complete beginner. My main, and up to now the only class, is 54 NIN. I am the point when you realise you still have close to 100 quests to do, before you can continue with leveling your main, so I decided to try other classes, maybe some crafting or gathering.
But even before this decision, I sometimes found myself missing a skill or using incorrect sequence, especially in situations where there are a lot of visual effects, moving around or special mechanics to do. I will get better and improve, but by the time I get to 70 and start using even more skills and even more combinations, I will not have improved to the point of being perfect. Simply put, this will never happen. So, even when I am at 70, having succesfully finished all dungeons, raids or whatnot, I will still make mistakes. There's no doubt about it. And that's only by playing one class/job. What if I were to play more than one and I would often switch between them?

So, the question is ... What do you do when you encounter someone like that in your group? How long do you wait before you say/do something? How certain are you that you know the reason for this person's mistake(s)? Do you ask "What happened there?" before you start giving advice or even your personal feelings towards someone like them?

I am not saying "do nothing" or "say nothing". But, what's the point of you telling me I am bad, when I know that perfectly well? I am sitting behind my keyboard thinking "Concentrate, you fool. Or it could be another of those dungeons where two or more players are trying to outdo each other with "knowledge", "skill" or "understanding of the game" while the others are waiting from them to finish".

Please, all of you with knowledge and experience, continue to help, educate and lead us, the beginners and all the others with lesser understanding of the game. But understand one thing, while it's perfectly acceptable to expect "very basic level of competence" in playing the game, it's equally acceptable to expect "very basic level of humane behaviour" of someone who joins other people for group activities. Empathy, compassion and sympathy are not just words.

[Dualgunner]

I'm not nitpicking, you are just googling definitions without taking into account the context here. Calling someone bad in a videogame is not an assessment of skill.

I didn't say you were nitpicking, I said I was nitpicking and explained why I was nitpicking it. Calling someone bad at a videogame is an assessment of their skill at that game.

While my question "Why nitpick this?" may have been vague, my explanation afterward should have been a clue I was talking about myself.

[Gallus]

So you don't respect others enough when you queue into content, but you want others to respect enough people who are underperforming?

I respect others enough to not call anyone bad and later disguise it as an assessment of skill.
I'm passionate about this game because I like it, I don't practice my rotations in a dummy because I want to meet your acceptable levels of skill when it comes to running a dungeon.

[Gallus]

Calling someone bad at a videogame is an assessment of their skill at that game.

Not gonna keep arguing about this because it's pointless. But even if I were to agree with you (which I don't) and accept that calling someone bad in a videogame is an honest assessment of skill, the next question would be, is that really your intention? Are you really trying to properly assess someone and help them because they are underperforming when you call them bad? Because calling someone bad doesn't seem very friendly or helpful to my eyes. Looks more to me like something you'd say to someone after wiping to a boss in an attempt to blame them and wash yourself from any responsibility you may have had in that wipe.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

I respect others enough to not call anyone bad and later disguise it as an assessment of skill.
I'm passionate about this game because I like it, I don't practice my rotations in a dummy because I want to meet your acceptable levels of skill when it comes to running a dungeon.

Looks more to me like something you'd say to someone after wiping to a boss in an attempt to blame them and wash yourself from any responsibility you may have had in that wipe.

Why are you projecting and/or making up a situation that no one mentioned just to back up your opinion?

[Dualgunner]

Not gonna keep arguing about this because it's pointless. But even if I were to agree with you (which I don't) and accept that calling someone bad in a videogame is an honest assessment of skill

Let's put aside the fact that the goalposts shifted from "assessment of skill" to "honest assessment of skill." Well, put it aside, but still have it pointed out.

the next question would be, is that really your intention?

I can't speak for others. I remain silent in groups that I assess as being unskilled at the game. I'd rather just get the dungeon over with and be out of there. However, you also can't speak for others, or assign intent behind a neutral assessment of skill. There is also a difference between calling someone's performance bad, and calling them "a bad," the latter being a pejorative that assumes the player has no ability to improve, which is not something I believe in whatsoever.

Are you really trying to properly assess someone and help them because they are underperforming when you call them bad? Because calling someone bad doesn't seem very friendly or helpful to my eyes.

Assessment has no relation to aiding somebody. One can assess somebody and leave it at that. Assessment is a wholly neutral term.

Looks more to me like something you'd say to someone after wiping to a boss in an attempt to blame them and wash yourself from any responsibility you may have had in that wipe.

Anyone can make an assessment. Even people who are bad at making assessments.