The coming Garlean invasion

[ObsidianFire]

The Confederacy was also given aid on a number of occasions by the Warrior of Light and other individuals operating on Eorzea's behalf. An organisation that resorts to strong arming passing vessels into paying its 'Ruby Tithe'. Any who refuse are stripped of their belongings and taken prisoner - as can be seen with some of the flavour NPC's situated within their home base.

The Confederacy has also had jurisdiction over the Ruby Sea for as long as everyone in Doma and Hingashi can remember. If Hingashi really wanted the Confederates out of the Ruby Sea, they would have forced them out long ago. The only reason why Hingashi has refused to play ball with the Confederates in recent times is because Yotsuyu declared them to be unlawful under Garlean rule. The Hingans decided that was fine since that meant they didn't have to pay the Ruby Tithe which they'd been paying for as long as they could remember.

Incidentally, the East Aldenard Trading Company isn't complaining about the Confederates' tithe; they're just happy to be able to do business with them since the Confederates have stuff the EATC wants at reasonable prices. Ironically the people who are buying Confederate goods from the EATC is Hingashi, who the Conferates used to do a lot of business with. Ever since the Confederates were banned from coming to Kugane there's been a shortage of goods from the Ruby Sea in Kugane itself.

And as I pointed out in that thread, if a private company is circumventing Hingan tariffs in Hingan territory, then it is Hingashi's job to do something about it.

If the scenario was playing out in reverse - if a Hingan merchant company was trying to set up camp on an unclaimed island off the coast of Aldenard - who would be dealing with that? Would the Eorzeans expect the Hingan government to send someone (diplomats? soldiers?) to sort it out, or would they send their own people to claim the island as rightfully part of their territory and under their jurisdiction?

Provided they weren't bothering the Eorzeans, the Eorzeans probably wouldn't do anything. As it is, this is already happening somewhat, only it's not with Hingashi, it's with the remains of the XIVth Legion. Castrum Marinum is portrayed as being somewhere near The Cieldalaes, a group of islands in the Rhotano Sea halfway between Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah. It'd be pretty hard to find a better place to threaten Eorzean shipping lanes. If the other Castrums are anything to go by, Eorzea isn't doing anything about them provided they don't start anything either (yes, I know the time-bubble is a thing, but considering Balasaur's Wall is still manned after all this time... yeah...). So Castrum Marinum is most likely still there. And if the Eorzeans are so busy they aren't bothering with the XIVth Legion, I have a really hard time seeing them bothering with anyone else.

Besides, that sounds like it'd be something right up Limsa's alley to look into. And Limsa only really cares about stuff like that if traders don't stick to the code. So long as they are legitimatize traders and not smugglers, I don't see anyone having a problem if Hingashi pulled something like that.

[Iscah]

I suspect this is yet another case of the '#EorzeaDidNothingWrong' card being pulled out, as it tends to be used for pretty much everything these days.

I'm not saying Eorzea has done nothing wrong. There are dark elements in each of the countries of the Alliance. Pirates in Limsa, corruption in Ul'dah, Ishgard's past. But at the same time in all these places, the countries' current leaders are people who want to change that, improve the lives of their people and make a better future. I'm hopeful that they can live up to those ideals. (And equally hopeful that the good side of Garlemald can overcome the country's dark core and change it for the better, too.)

But the things you keep bringing up are not the negative things that do exist in the Eorzean states. You're focusing on this private trade enterprise and holding it up as a sign of the Alliance having "imperialistic tendencies" then asking why nobody is condemning Eorzea's imperialistic tendencies. And the answer, for me at least, is because it isn't showing them.

It's not #EorzeaDidNothingWrong, it's #EorzeaDidn'tDoWhatYou'reBlamingThemForDoing.


So, aside of your belief that the government should be held diplomatically responsible for the actions of a private company, what is the Eorzean Alliance doing that is imperialistic? They are not trying to expand their borders or take over other countries.

I don't think they even want to directly engage with Garlemald. The problem is that their actual enemy, an Ascian, is deep in the heart of it.

I'm rewatching the cutscene of the meeting on Youtube, which isn't playing really well on my computer so I might have missed some lines, but the concerns they talk about are a potential inability to defend themselves if Garlemald attempts to retake Doma and Ala Mhigo, and how to target the Ascian-disguised-as-Zenos within Garlemald, rather than the country.

I'm also uneasy about their plans to destabilise the Empire by spreading unrest (which wasn't even the theme of the conversation until Thancred proposed his scheme), but their motive is not imperialistic. They are not doing it so they can swoop in and capture Garlemald for themselves. Their concern remains the mission that the Scions have been committed to from the start - except now it has become bigger and more difficult and tangled up in world politics.

I'm not sure I like it, but I can see - from all our interactions with them so far - that the people making these choices are good people, trying to do what's best for their world and fight a darkness that goes beyond countries and politics and into the very core of reality. I want to think that what they are doing is the best decision they could make in the circumstances.

All this does not put me against the prospect of Garlemald being redeemable or internally complex. Or seeing fault in the actions of the Eorzean Alliance if it is actual fault on the part of the Alliance and not unallied individuals who happen to come from their country.

Provided they weren't bothering the Eorzeans, the Eorzeans probably wouldn't do anything. As it is, this is already happening somewhat, only it's not with Hingashi, it's with the remains of the XIVth Legion. Castrum Marinum is portrayed as being somewhere near The Cieldalaes, a group of islands in the Rhotano Sea halfway between Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah. It'd be pretty hard to find a better place to threaten Eorzean shipping lanes. If the other Castrums are anything to go by, Eorzea isn't doing anything about them provided they don't start anything either (yes, I know the time-bubble is a thing, but considering Balasaur's Wall is still manned after all this time... yeah...). So Castrum Marinum is most likely still there. And if the Eorzeans are so busy they aren't bothering with the XIVth Legion, I have a really hard time seeing them bothering with anyone else.

Fair point - going by their lack of action against the castrums, they may not be concerned about the hypothetical Hingan trading post either. But if it happened, and they did object, I still think it would be their own responsibility (and/or right) to act against it rather than expecting Hingashi to deal with it for them.

I suspect a large part of the issue is that many come here not to discuss the lore as a whole, but to gush over Eorzea and Eorzeans at every turn.

You say that like gushing over likeable characters from the 'home' country of a fictional world designed for our enjoyment is a bad thing.

[Kallera]

Meh, I wouldn't call the indepenent business ventures of Rowena as an example of imperialism. She has contacts and business ventures in the empire as well. And while he is even shadier business, Lolorito is the same thing.

I do think Eorzea, at times in the plot, is starting to adopt more extreme methods as time goes on, and I'd be unenthusiastic about the idea of unification, but they are not alone in becoming more and more extreme and is probably what the Ascians desire out of reaction among the nations, they want a side desperate and powerful enough to "press the red button" as it were, and that need not be the Empire, nor Eorzea the target. The Grand Companies are using thaumaturgical bomb collars, a spy network of considerable reach on crystals and faith, anti primal summoning teams. All these things are beneficial now, but its no leap of logic to see their potential for misuse.

But coming back to the invasion, I kinda want this to be a bloodbath in the Empire's favor. They've spent a considerable amount of time in the game getting beaten and while I wouldn't want it to be easy, this would be a good time to show they aren't going to sit there and get dismantled.

But that is assuming said invasion takes place, or doesn't result in a standoff/no man's land situation on the Eorzean front as well. If that happens it might be what is needed for a chance for the ascians to be found out in time and both factions to lay down their arms... or for political instability/resources to make things come to a head.

[DarthSanguine]

Castrum Marinum is portrayed as being somewhere near The Cieldalaes, a group of islands in the Rhotano Sea halfway between Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah.

Castrum Marinum is the building just off of Cape Westwind in Western Thanalan. It is not in the middle of the Rhotano.