The coming Garlean invasion

[Bright-Flower]

He forbade it yes, until someone reminded him that he is a puppet and must do what he is told, so that invasion is coming.
Varis did try to change the course of the empire by sponsoring the populares, but someone saw to end that before it could happen

Also before ppl forgets. The garleans DO believe that they are saving the world, the difference between populares and optimates is how they want to rule. Both sides still want to conquer and educate the ppl of the world, they but differ in how, but at the end of the day for both of them non garleans or honorary garleans are savages and don't mistake that

I don't think Varis is going to just quietly go along with what Solus wants.

[Balipu]

I don't think Varis is going to just quietly go along with what Solus wants.

And I'm sure the tag tem of Solus and Elidibus will just simply shrug and say 'okay'.

Oh wait. No. They will probably destroy everything he hold dear before he goes along with the plan. If still no they will just murder him and give his corpse to another Ascian.

[Heliantheae]

If still no they will just murder him and give his corpse to another Ascian.

That is what scares me. Subterfuge being their thing and all, what is stopping them was simply killing him. Even better, they could gather him and anyone else they might view as a problem in one area. Launch the Black Rose and then blame it on us. After seeing what "we'll" do, it'll unite the Garleans against us even more.

[Remedi]

I don't think Varis is going to just quietly go along with what Solus wants.

Idd he won't because the plot demands our presence, but realistically he can't do a thing. Solus has already plan B at ready if Varis won't comply.

Actually, the Populares want to improve the lives of those in the provinces, Garlean or otherwise. Asahi was a scumbag, but he likely wouldn't lie w hen he explained this to the WoL. And if Maxima is any indication, they'll probably shift their position on Imperial expansion quickly once the truths about the Burn is revealed and be made aware of how awful and brutal the Empire was being in places like Dalmasca, Doma and Ala Mhigo.

They do yes, but still as provinces under Garlemand even Totally-not-Gaius doesn't want for the empire to lose more provinces. The Garleans in the prima vista too believe of the rigtheousness of the crusade of the empire as savior of the lesser races despite being advocates for non violence.
Essentially what they want is a political conquest, not with war, but with politics and agreement, it doesn't make them less imperialist or expansionist it's only different

[NoblePigeon]

Idd he won't because the plot demands our presence, but realistically he can't do a thing. Solus has already plan B at ready if Varis won't comply.



They do yes, but still as provinces under Garlemand even Totally-not-Gaius doesn't want for the empire to lose more provinces. The Garleans in the prima vista too believe of the rigtheousness of the crusade of the empire as savior of the lesser races despite being advocates for non violence.
Essentially what they want is a political conquest, not with war, but with politics and agreement, it doesn't make them less imperialist or expansionist it's only different

I'll have to take that with a grain of salt for now, since we know so few about the Populares outside of what Asahi has explained. We do know that Titus, Solus's second son, was a leader in the War of Succession, whom specifically advocated for halting military conquests and the mandate to eliminate primals. I would not be at all surprised if the Populares was aligned with them.

Sure, I reckon they probably wouldn't be huge fans if Garlemald was reduced to a rump state. But as it stands now. they are the first group of Garleans we've seen that we can not only cooperate with, but use to actually put their nation on the right track. I guess we'll see in 4.5 onward if the Populares actually have imperialistic ambitions or not, though I'm still betting on the latter.

[NoblePigeon]

It would seem I have over-played my sarcasm and my tongue in cheek jests regarding a war with the Empire. Allow me to be clear on two short items:
-snip-

Some people are better at detecting sarcasm in typed words than others. I unfortunately am not one of them, so apologies!

Garlemald is actually my favorite faction in the game because of a lot of its themes appeal to me. Honestly I would very much like for the FATE system to be overhauled for stuff like that. Metaevents that affect the whole map, a la Guild Wars 2. That would require a overhaul of EVERYTHING though, which I don't see them doing anytime soon, sadly.

Gaius most definitely was a brilliant strategist, but as he ended up consorting with Ascians to mess around with a weapon barely understood, to use a WMD to hold the entire continent hostage? There were most definitely flaws in his thinking. Alongside the naive belief that Eorzeans would be okay with being ruled by the same nation that threw an entire Moon down on them and was directly responsible for allowing beast tribes to summon primals again (that Gaius and some others opposed the project is hardly relevant to those people). His plan would have almost worked too, at least in making the leaders surrender, but those pesky Scions urged them to not put up with Gaius's nonsense and that they have a solution.

I'd be okay for there being a full scale war, and having the Scions try to maneuver into the heart of Garlemald to try putting an end to it and stem it at its source. Whether Varis is cooperative or not will be the big question mark; maybe he sends out an invasion force because of the pressure the Ascians are putting on him. "Do this or we'll just turn you into free real estate for another Ascian." But I'd also be okay if there was only the threat of total war as well, something that needs to be defused with the help of those scheming against the throne or the ruling regime in general. It was noted that there's definitely factions outside the Populares that oppose the current leadership, some likely for less altruistic reasons than the Populares.

He forbade it yes, until someone reminded him that he is a puppet and must do what he is told, so that invasion is coming.
Varis did try to change the course of the empire by sponsoring the populares, but someone saw to end that before it could happen

Also before ppl forgets. The garleans DO believe that they are saving the world, the difference between populares and optimates is how they want to rule. Both sides still want to conquer and educate the ppl of the world, they but differ in how, but at the end of the day for both of them non garleans or honorary garleans are savages and don't mistake that

Actually, the Populares want to improve the lives of those in the provinces, Garlean or otherwise. Asahi was a scumbag, but he likely wouldn't lie w hen he explained this to the WoL. And if Maxima is any indication, they'll probably shift their position on Imperial expansion quickly once the truths about the Burn is revealed and be made aware of how awful and brutal the Empire was being in places like Dalmasca, Doma and Ala Mhigo.

[Ramesses]

Some people are better at detecting sarcasm in typed words than others. I unfortunately am not one of them, so apologies!

Garlemald is actually my favorite faction in the game because of a lot of its themes appeal to me.

Apologies graciously accepted and likewise, I sincerely liked your evaluation of how the war might have proceeded... very solid comments that made sense.

Similar to you, I have always admired the way SE have been developing the Garlean empire within the fabric of this story. I'm a huge FFXII fan (I still stubbornly keep declaring that Basch had the best ending for me)... and as such, the moment I saw the art direction and cultural themes for the Empire, I was immediately fascinated.

Also, your idea of having a mega-fate area is something I'm glad you mentioned because it would make perfect sense for 5.0. I had mentioned in one of my previous posts somewhere that there should be an exclusive "war-zone" where players could jump in (with or without their GC squadrons), spend anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes battling the empire and then rack up "alliance" points, ala FFXI campaign style.

That would be wicked.

[NoblePigeon]

Apologies graciously accepted and likewise, I sincerely liked your evaluation of how the war might have proceeded... very solid comments that made sense.

Similar to you, I have always admired the way SE have been developing the Garlean empire within the fabric of this story. I'm a huge FFXII fan (I still stubbornly keep declaring that Basch had the best ending for me)... and as such, the moment I saw the art direction and cultural themes for the Empire, I was immediately fascinated.

Also, your idea of having a mega-fate area is something I'm glad you mentioned because it would make perfect sense for 5.0. I had mentioned in one of my previous posts somewhere that there should be an exclusive "war-zone" where players could jump in (with or without their GC squadrons), spend anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes battling the empire and then rack up "alliance" points, ala FFXI campaign style.

That would be wicked.

That's what I loved so much about the system in Guild Wars 2. Meta events actually affected regions of the map based on whether they fail or succeed. Certain waypoints or merchants or the like would be inaccessible if all the meta events failed until people fought back and saved the day. And Heart of Thorns had map-wide meta events, which by completing gives you cool stuff.

I do like it when the "big evil empire" nation in settings gets fleshed out a lot like Garlemald is now. The revelation that it was made for this exact purpose and that a good number of Garleans would probably be horrified if they discovered their nation was made exclusively to destroy the planet, suddenly brings a whole new dimension to the story.

God, if SE actually had that kind of thing by 5.0 I'd go crazy. Or maybe later down the line when we confront Zodiark and the Ascians directly or something.

[Alleo]

He forbade it yes, until someone reminded him that he is a puppet and must do what he is told, so that invasion is coming.
Varis did try to change the course of the empire by sponsoring the populares, but someone saw to end that before it could happen

Did I miss something ingame because I have no clue where this was stated? Ethys talked about this too but later said that this is the case because the Populares got bigger under Varis rule..If there is no direct hint ingame then wouldnt that be a bit of speculation? Because its not that surprising of having opponements if you have a rule that not everyone likes. Also didnt the Populares want true peace? At least if my memories serve me correctly Maxima was all about not starting another war and the populares did lose a bit because of the primal rumor which would only happen if they had the vision to not conquer anymore.

On topic: I dont think that we will really have a invasion. That would kinda mean that we would lose some city states and I cant see SE doing all the work and creating different assets for whole zones. I mean maybe Ala Mhigo itself might fall, be destroyed or even the first vicitm to the Black rose (since its not really a functional city that people can visit) but an invasion would imo mean too much change. (Not that its 100% impossible but I kinda doubt it)

About the off topic:

Are some really trying to push the trip to Eureka which happens under private companies onto the shoulders of the government and try to spin it as trying to conquer countries? Come on..nobody ever said that Eorzeas city states were without faults but unlike Garlemald which is now a government that exists only to sow chaos and that managed to create a calamity (which means millions or even billions of death people..) and that just razed a main city to the ground for the rebellion, they are quite morally on the higher ground. Even old Ishgard was never that bad and that is saying something. Heck we do know the view from all the current leaders and they all want peace. They may have made mistakes in their governments too but no state exists that is without fault. But most of the stuff that is happening there is something that you can find in a lot of our own rl countries too and thus makes them nuanced, normal countries. Nothing too bad, but also not perfect. Honestly they would need to throw an nuclear bomb on Garlemald and enslave the survivors before they even get near the bad stuff that Garlemald has done the last few decades. (And now we know that this was done on purpose too! And even if an Ascian was behind it, they still need the majority of people behind their cause, otherwise they have no people to rule.)

And lets not forget that you cant even put Eureka in the same category as other "conquerings" (if they would be on the governments shoulders which they are not) because other than some monsters nobody else lives on Eureka. Thus nobody was killed for the land, nobody got enslaved for the land and the only negative consquence is the loss of money for Hingashi which they seemingly brought onto themselves.

So please lets try a bit harder if one really does want to put some blame on the states instead of such examples or even starting to use What ifs..because those have no place in a reasonable discussions about facts and some future speculations thanks to these facts.

(Also if people are allowed to gush over Varis, then others can do the same with the Eorzean leaders. And at least we do really know their objectives so no speculation on their character in that part)

Also some nice definition of imperialism:

1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies. (it was not the government that went there but private companies so nope)
2. advocacy of imperial or sovereign interests over the interests of the dependent states. (There is not state there that could be dependent and thus also no forced interests)
3. imperial government; rule by an emperor or empress. (No government rules there)

Just saying

[Cilia]

This is a very complex situation.

On the one hand, the Eorzeans and Othardians are right to suspect that Garlemald is preparing to launch an assault on one of them (in this case Ala Mhigo). They know they can't beat Garlemald in a straight-out fight, and they also know an Ascian is parading about in Zenos' skin. Therefore the most logical course of action would be to destabilize Garlemald in order to forestall that assault by, ironically, spreading the truth. As far as I am aware nobody has designs to launch a counter-assault and conquer Garlemald after (if) this is accomplished. This will cause much strife in Garlemald and could backfire spectacularly... but if the country is to be free of Ascian manipulation, the truth needs to be let out - down to the core of its founding philosophy being nothing more than a bunch of meaningless lies. Even if that shakes it to its foundations. Even if that deposes the current ruler, or at least forces him to give up his ambitions. Ishgard weathered a similar storm - there's no reason Garlemald can't do the same.

On the other... the current ruler, whatever he may or may not have been before, has been reduced to little more than a puppet. The Garlean people (and even the protagonists themselves) are ignorant of how deep the Ascian corruption in Garlemald runs. Varis' hands are tied, and his people are primed for a war he may or may not want thanks to yet another lie. The ignorance of the Garlean people make this a tragic way to go, but there's no other choice - until their strings are cut there's nothing questionable about fighting the puppet(s) if they act aggressively since they serve the true enemy (wittingly or otherwise). Whatever the Garlean people do with the information given to them (which is the truth, mind)... well, that's on them.

We don't know how Varis intends to resist Ascian manipulation (though it's clear he does), but that doesn't mean the protagonists should do nothing. Letting the truth out - what we know of it, at any rate - is the best idea anyone has at the moment, so...