Thank you for increased difficulty

[Maeka]

Because Thordan normal exists. Never. Again. NEVER!

Well obviously, there IS a "Too Easy", but then you talk about Thordan Normal... but yet you don't mention Cape Westwind?

[MomomiMomi]

Well obviously, there IS a "Too Easy", but then you talk about Thordan Normal... but yet you don't mention Cape Westwind?

Cape Westwind wasn't a final boss fight against someone with god-like powers. Thordan was, and yet there's absolutely no challenge in that fight. The Ascian he wipes out in a single swipe was harder than him.

The point is, the next "Thordan" should have difficulty, just as Shinryu did. The story parts leading up to that epic battle should be preparing the player for that upcoming dificulty.

[Maeka]

Cape Westwind wasn't a final boss fight against someone with god-like powers. Thordan was, and yet there's absolutely no challenge in that fight. The Ascian he wipes out in a single swipe was harder than him.

The point is, the next "Thordan" should have difficulty, just as Shinryu did. The story parts leading up to that epic battle should be preparing the player for that upcoming dificulty.

But yet some random dragon that comes out of the mists in the middle of nowhere should be harder than most Primals? I would say the Mist Dragon was far harder than, say, Bismarck or even Susano. Or if you want to keep on track of comparing 4 man dungeons, how about Mist Dragon vs freaking Zenos? Zenos isn't anywhere near as hard mechanically, and is far more forgiving of mistakes. And he was supposed to be a major villain!

[MomomiMomi]

But yet some random dragon that comes out of the mists in the middle of nowhere should be harder than most Primals? I would say the Mist Dragon was far harder than, say, Bismarck or even Susano. Or if you want to keep on track of comparing 4 man dungeons, how about Mist Dragon vs freaking Zenos? Zenos isn't anywhere near as hard mechanically, and is far more forgiving of mistakes. And he was supposed to be a major villain!

I actually agree Mist Dragon is slightly too hard. I even said so in the thread about the new dungeons. What I don't agree with is that we shouldn't have difficulty in the MSQ.

[Maeka]

I actually agree Mist Dragon is slightly too hard. I even said so in the thread about the new dungeons. What I don't agree with is that we shouldn't have difficulty in the MSQ.

Then we're in pretty much full agreement.

Some difficulty is okay. I felt that Baelsar's Wall (even at release, before people got geared/sync'd) was a nice happy medium. Mr. Sloppy would wreck your face if you stood in the bad and didn't handle the chains. But yet, if you had a little bit of lag on the healer's part, it wasn't an insta-wipe either.

[RiyahArp]

Some difficulty is okay. I felt that Baelsar's Wall (even at release, before people got geared/sync'd) was a nice happy medium.

We had that difficulty. people called it faceroll and said it wasn't enough to make people git gud. Now they made it harder, and the same people here in a few months will say the same things again, and ask for harder content. Zero point in arguing any more, let them endure the wipes.

[Maeka]

@van_arn: Again, the problem with the Mist Dragon is not "handling the mechanics".

I know the mechanics just fine.

It's the short time-frames they give you, the insanely short time frames. One spot of lag and he decided to swoop right at me and I'm the healer? We're done. No second chances, no vulnerability, nothing. BOOM, you're dead. Start over from second one and pray you can do the whole thing, start-to-finish, with neither the tank nor the healer having any lag.

Just.......wtf? How is that fair?

I mean, heck, in Raids, you at least have two healers and a lot of times, you CAN recover if one healer lags for a second. Well maybe not Savage, but still.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Well obviously, there IS a "Too Easy", but then you talk about Thordan Normal... but yet you don't mention Cape Westwind?

I think most of us forget Cape Westwind entirely. Rhitatyn almost never survives long enough to actually do anything.

[Hamada]

The only thing "hard" about the mist dragon is tanks staying in the frost aoe (I learned the hard way and ofc lectured by my GF not to pull it so fast without her giving a few tips) and the DPS check with the 4 dragon add things. With ilevel entry, unless you have a very good healer to heal the aftermath and people having enough hp not to get oneshoted (my GF did a run without me as a healer who told me she healed though that once) That DPS check can wipe you, and honestly, that is the fault of the player for not knowing how to do rotations. If you pay attention to your teammates more, a LOT, AWFUL lot of pug players do not know how to do their rotations.

As for people killing the healer on that aoe move, well healer can dodge the player too, we all had to deal with that in the current 24 man. I really do not get why people would call this stuff too hard, you mean you expect to faceroll everything and never wipe while only hitting 1,1,1,1,1,1? Those are the type of players that cause wipes in this game, usually.

Then we're in pretty much full agreement.

Some difficulty is okay. I felt that Baelsar's Wall (even at release, before people got geared/sync'd) was a nice happy medium. Mr. Sloppy would wreck your face if you stood in the bad and didn't handle the chains. But yet, if you had a little bit of lag on the healer's part, it wasn't an insta-wipe either.

I feel if you 2 think this dungeon is too hard for a MSQ, then why are rotations for some jobs "too hard"? How come those are not made easier? WHY should we have content so easy anyone can face roll it? I did not even find the mist dragon that hard, you wipe once or twice on new content, big deal , come a month when people are in i380+ more common, you see it faceroll just like the past.

I also feel you may feel that way from the lack of difficulty curve in the game, it should slowly get more difficult, starting at satasha, not get easier. Some people praise the vault for having a nice increase difficultly, but I question that when a healer can try MPK a rdm, the healer dies while doing this, and we kill the final boss in the vault with RDM heals. Does that really show difficulty scaling if a healer can goof around and die and still finish the last boss fight?

[TaleraRistain]

Some people praise the vault for having a nice increase difficultly, but I question that when a healer can try MPK a rdm, the healer dies while doing this, and we kill the final boss in the vault with RDM heals. Does that really show difficulty scaling if a healer can goof around and die and still finish the last boss fight?

You're seeing it now. Not how it was at launch when we were in much lower ilevel of gear and didn't have red mages. It was the same thing with Keeper of the Lake. In the gear available and the classes available at the time it came out, the final Middy fight was hard in general and very hard on healers. But the thing those dungeons have in common with The Burn is the unforgiving nature of the mechanics. The insta-kill stuff seems to be what SE falls back on when they want to implement "challenge".