Thank you for increased difficulty

[van_arn]

I don't mind the challenge, except I feel that the Mist Dragon is too unforgiving for it to be part of the MSQ.

Difficult Side-content is fine, Suzaku is not MSQ nor is Alphascape, and that's entirely fine. That bit of content can be skipped if the player can't hack it. MSQ, however, is kinda required for everything else in the game, and it shouldn't be so difficult.

But Mist Dragon is tuned just a wee bit too high for an MSQ dungeon, just a wee bit unforgiving, and 1 group member's mistake can easily wipe the whole group with that directional AoE or how the healer getting clipped by an AoE is almost certain death if you don't have a RDM or SMN in the group with you.

We need more stuff like the mist dragon. If people can't handle these mechanics by this point of the msq and are still expecting carries, then kick them so they're stuck in an endless loop or learn.

I have zero sympathy if people can't handle themselves by this point.

[Maeka]

We need more stuff like the mist dragon. If people can't handle these mechanics by this point of the msq and are still expecting carries, then kick them so they're stuck in an endless loop or learn.

I have zero sympathy if people can't handle themselves by this point.

What's the point of having a more casual MMO if you're going to lock everything behind the MSQ and then stick a brick wall in the MSQ that prevents people from getting through it? At least with Shinryu, 7 skilled people could squeak by it, if you had a person who couldn't hack it. You can't do that in a 4 man dungeon though.

Then you get people who are not able to deal with <2 second large AoEs being forced to quit because they are unable to progress further until the next expansion when someone can unsync the fight for them.

Please don't get on a high horse, we do not need the MSQ being hard-core or difficult. The MSQ should be easy, to allow pretty much everybody access. If you want hard content, you have it in Savage, Ultimate, etc.

[Lorgana]

What's the point of having a more casual MMO if you're going to lock everything behind the MSQ and then stick a brick wall in the MSQ that prevents people from getting through it? At least with Shinryu, 7 skilled people could squeak by it, if you had a person who couldn't hack it. You can't do that in a 4 man dungeon though.

Then you get people who are not able to deal with <2 second large AoEs being forced to quit because they are unable to progress further until the next expansion when someone can unsync the fight for them.

Please don't get on a high horse, we do not need the MSQ being hard-core or difficult. The MSQ should be easy, to allow pretty much everybody access. If you want hard content, you have it in Savage, Ultimate, etc.

There's a fundamental difference between something being hardcore and it being difficult. The MSQ should prep you for the more difficult content, thus far aside from a few exceptions it's just been a face roll, now you're level 70 and the truth is you SHOULD know how to deal with these things, if you don't you need to learn, how does one learn? Trial and error.

If you can't deal with higher difficulty content in the MSQ then you most certainly can't deal with it anywhere else and at that point what are you except a paracite to any party you're in. People should celebrate this difficulty as an opportunity to improve their skills, to test themselves. What is your reward? MSQ progression.

[Maeka]

There's a fundamental difference between something being hardcore and it being difficult. The MSQ should prep you for the more difficult content, thus far aside from a few exceptions it's just been a face roll, now you're level 70 and the truth is you SHOULD know how to deal with these things, if you don't you need to learn, how does one learn? Trial and error.

If you can't deal with higher difficulty content in the MSQ then you most certainly can't deal with it anywhere else and at that point what are you except a paracite to any party you're in. People should celebrate this difficulty as an opportunity to improve their skills, to test themselves. What is your reward? MSQ progression.

Here's a clue: Not everybody even WANTS to do raids, or higher "endgame" content.

SOME people only want to see the story. Should we deny them too?

Should we deny the people who just want to craft and keep the MSQ current so that they can actually participate in the next expansion when it comes out?

Again, we have PLENTY of side-content to give you the challenge you want. Why aren't you content with that? Why do you have to force people to go through such challenge in something that is REQUIRED for just about every aspect of the game?

At that point you're basically saying "beat this or just quit because you can't do anything after it".

[MomomiMomi]

Again, we have PLENTY of side-content to give you the challenge you want. Why aren't you content with that? Why do you have to force people to go through such challenge in something that is REQUIRED for just about every aspect of the game?

Because Thordan normal exists. Never. Again. NEVER!

That was anticlimactic at such an incredible level that I couldn't believe it.

The story should absolutely have difficulty at certain points. And to make sure players are ready for that difficulty, we should have difficulty throughout the whole thing.

[Maeka]

Because Thordan normal exists. Never. Again. NEVER!

Well obviously, there IS a "Too Easy", but then you talk about Thordan Normal... but yet you don't mention Cape Westwind?

[MomomiMomi]

Well obviously, there IS a "Too Easy", but then you talk about Thordan Normal... but yet you don't mention Cape Westwind?

Cape Westwind wasn't a final boss fight against someone with god-like powers. Thordan was, and yet there's absolutely no challenge in that fight. The Ascian he wipes out in a single swipe was harder than him.

The point is, the next "Thordan" should have difficulty, just as Shinryu did. The story parts leading up to that epic battle should be preparing the player for that upcoming dificulty.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Well obviously, there IS a "Too Easy", but then you talk about Thordan Normal... but yet you don't mention Cape Westwind?

I think most of us forget Cape Westwind entirely. Rhitatyn almost never survives long enough to actually do anything.

[LauraAdalena]

Here's a clue: Not everybody even WANTS to do raids, or higher "endgame" content.

SOME people only want to see the story. Should we deny them too?

Should we deny the people who just want to craft and keep the MSQ current so that they can actually participate in the next expansion when it comes out?

Again, we have PLENTY of side-content to give you the challenge you want. Why aren't you content with that? Why do you have to force people to go through such challenge in something that is REQUIRED for just about every aspect of the game?

At that point you're basically saying "beat this or just quit because you can't do anything after it".

You have yourself at a logical fallacy here that needs to be adressed. People who are the crafters and such don't want difficult content... because they get tomes faster. That's not the fallacy, I just wanted to point that out.

The fallacy is that you are saying that these people want this content... but at the same time arguing against people that wanted this content to improve player skill and improve their overall experience. I'm not going to give you some attitude, but I'd like to point out that just because someone "wants" something doesn't mean they should get it. I'm not here to say your points don't have any merit, I do agree that the 2 second aoes can be unfair for more casual players because more casual players may not have as good internet connections because of monetary restrictions. But I'm not saying others have no merit either, giving more difficult content can in fact increase the skill of the playerbase since the game has basic expectations of its players instead of just giving 3 bosses that basically don't do anything in terms of damage and mechanics are as lacking of punishment that it's the teacher not laying down the law when their students aren't obeying the rules.

Want =/= need. Just because someone doesn't want something doesn't mean it's the content the entire community needs to make it bigger/more sustainable in the long run. This type of content is exactly how you do that.

[RiyahArp]

Want =/= need. Just because someone doesn't want something doesn't mean it's the content the entire community needs to make it bigger/more sustainable in the long run. This type of content is exactly how you do that.

There's two flaws with this.

1. You assume players will eat their veggies, i.e. do the content they need but don't want.

2. You assume they can successfully raise their skill by doing it.

People tend to take these things for granted. The 1st part can mean the player just puts off the story to work on crafting or pvp and gets their tomes some other way, or it could mean they put the game down some. The second is a little more dire; the simply can't raise their skill to the desired outcome.

Like I can't see as a healer casual content getting any harder. A lot of the attacks really rely on the healer not getting killed way too much, or people not taking any damage; some of the bosses now have two damaging attacks in a row that can happen faster than a gcd. Like if they get hit by a boss aoe and then the targeted thunderbolt or whatever, you can only save them with OGCDs; i can't hardcast cure fast enough. Any harder and you run the risk of winnowing a lot of healers out of content; this was the issue with Feast early on in HW I think.