Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[HyoMinPark]

If Opo-Opo:

Bootshine, Dragon Kick, Arm of the Destroyer.

If Raptor:

True Trike, Twin Snakes, One Ilm Punch.

If Coeurl:

Demolish, Snap Punch, Rock Breaker.

Done. 3 buttons. Press the one you want.

Okay, and your solution to SAM with regards to Meikyo Shisui? How do you propose that working under the influence of a buff that gets rid of combos to allow you to apply buffs earlier or to get Sens earlier outside of full combos?

I never argued that it works in pvp therefore it works in pve. I said that the pve game works like this already. The rotations do not change.

They can depending on the scenario for some jobs—BRDs have a strict song rotation, but there are incidents where you would want to change them up:
—Single-target is Minuet > Mage’s > Army’s
—AOE rotation is Mage’s > Army’s > Minuet

Optimal rotations in UwU are to do Minuet > Army’s > Mage’s during Titan because there’s a chance you will be gaoled and waste Mage’s Ballad, a song more potent than Army’s. Transition into Ultima through Predation calls for you to do Minuet > Army’s (during Predation and for ~10 seconds when he returns) > Mage’s (clip at 10 seconds) > Minuet so that you can activate Troubadour for raid damage mitigation.

They’re niche, but the situations exist where you do change them up a bit.

You can’t do that if you shove them all into 1 button.

[MomomiMomi]

Okay, and your solution to SAM with regards to Meikyo Shisui? How do you propose that working under the influence of a buff that gets rid of combos to allow you to apply buffs earlier or to get Sens earlier outside of full combos?

Place the mid-combo button where you would normally place your buffs. You'd still have access to it, but don't need it in your easy to access buttons.

[Sigma-Astra]

If Opo-Opo:

Bootshine, Dragon Kick, Arm of the Destroyer.

If Raptor:

True Trike, Twin Snakes, One Ilm Punch.

If Coeurl:

Demolish, Snap Punch, Rock Breaker.

Done. 3 buttons. Press the one you want.

No one uses One Ilm Punch in their right mind. No respectable monk would use it. Ever.

[MomomiMomi]

No one uses One Ilm Punch in their right mind.

Relevant how? There something else more urgent to press?

Omg...you...STOP.

Clearly, you shouldn't be talking about Monk if you don't even play it or understand the class's rotation. The skill has been hot garbage for a loooooong time and every time SE tries to fix it and make it relevant, they make it worst.

How does this have anything to do with button consolidation? If One Ilm Punch is garbage, you don't press it. Was that so hard?

What I mentioned turns 9 buttons into 3. Where did I make the mistake? Where did it ruin Monk?

The buttons change based on which form you're in. Not which button you pressed previously. RDM already does this in PvP (whether Dual Cast is active or not), so clearly they're capable of it.

[Sigma-Astra]

Relevant how? There something else more urgent to press?

Omg...you...STOP.

Clearly, you shouldn't be talking about Monk if you don't even play it or understand the class's rotation. The skill has been hot garbage for a loooooong time and every time SE tries to fix it and make it relevant, they make it worst.

How does this have anything to do with button consolidation? If One Ilm Punch is garbage, you don't press it. Was that so hard?

What I mentioned turns 9 buttons into 3. Where did I make the mistake? Where did it ruin Monk?

You're the one who suggested this, not me. Maybe stop deflecting and remember what you actually posted. If you're suggesting that One Ilm Punch needs to be part of a "button consolidation" for MNK, then clearly, the lack of knowledge that you have for the class is really telling here.

If Opo-Opo:

Bootshine, Dragon Kick, Arm of the Destroyer.

If Raptor:

True Trike, Twin Snakes, One Ilm Punch.

If Coeurl:

Demolish, Snap Punch, Rock Breaker.

Done. 3 buttons. Press the one you want.

Maybe you just need to learn some muscle memory with your controller or switch to keyboard and mouse. As another controller player, that's what I feel is your problem.

No MNK keeps One Ilm Punch on their bar at all, therefore you're already reducing one button by default because it's hot garbage.

[HyoMinPark]

Place the mid-combo button where you would normally place your buffs. You'd still have access to it, but don't need it in your easy to access buttons.

But the skill consolidation would literally turn the 1-2-3 4-5-6 7-8 combo that SAM has into 1-1-1 2-2-2 3-3, because that’s what PvP does: base combos are reduced into single-button spam as opposed to 3 buttons.

It wouldn’t allow for something like the 3-Sen opener, in which you hit Meikyo Shisui > Yukikaze (“8”) > Hagakure (oGCD) > Guren (oGCD) > Gekko (“6”) > Kaiten > Higanbana > Gekko (“6”). You can’t do that if the combos are all consolidated into 1-1-1 or 2-2-2 and require you to cycle through them beforehand to reach the skill you need. Yukikaze and Gekko are combo finishers, but the logic would still apply if one wanted to use it for Shifu (“2”) or Jinpu (“5”): they aren’t readily accessible without first cycling through to get to them.

[Sigma-Astra]

The buttons change based on which form you're in. Not which button you pressed previously. RDM already does this in PvP (whether Dual Cast is active or not), so clearly they're capable of it.

AGAIN, WHAT CAN BE DONE IN PVP CANNOT BE BE DONE FLAWLESSLY IN PVE.

You are literally going around in circles and losing this argument because nothing you've said is making any logical sense right now.

I never argued that it works in pvp therefore it works in pve. I said that the pve game works like this already. The rotations do not change.

I'm calling bs on this line now.

[Penthea]

Yes, combat is boring. But not because it's slow. It's only interesting when there are lots of mechanics happening that you're unfamiliar with, because once you're familiar with them there's little if any variance and you fall into a routine.

Which is also why low-end content*, FATEs, hunt targets and Diadem/Eureka (effectively hunts/FATEs) turn some people off. The minute you remove the "dance" aspect of the game you're left with only the job's rotation. It's nearly as engaging as hitting a striking dummy.

* Low level content has little in the way of oGCDs, which speed up the pace of button pressing, and depending on fight also have less involved/obsoleted mechanics.

Even faster paced games can have boring combat if there is little to do other than just spam your rotation. No matter how mechanically interesting a class is, it eventually becomes dull if the encounter itself is little more than a target dummy.

[Miste]

So you're against it on an assumption. There's nothing to balance. The game already works this way. Nothing about the rotations changes. All that changes is that 6+ buttons become 3. That's it.

To be fair you are arguing for it on an assumption as well, the assumption that SE would make it optional.

As I said, "I personally" don't think so, it is not based on anything but my opinion and experience with the jobs in this game.

I am quite content with how the system works now, an assumption is all I need to disagree. I am not making any claims that I am factually right or you are wrong, it is just my opinion.

Balance or not I don't believe SE would make this optional so, sorry, but I don't like the idea of it therefore I am against it. Nothing more to say really.

I never argued that it works in pvp therefore it works in pve. I said that the pve game works like this already. The rotations do not change.

Technically rotations can fluctuate in actual encounters. Sure, on a dummy you just use the optimal rotation and have done with it, but in fights where you are required to adjust to the mechanics and flow of the fight, not so much.

BUT I may have misunderstood what you meant here since I missed a lot of the conversation. Just figured I'd point that out though.

[kikix12]

It wouldn’t allow for something like the 3-Sen opener, in which you hit Meikyo Shisui > Yukikaze (“8”) > Hagakure (oGCD) > Guren (oGCD) > Gekko (“6”) > Kaiten > Higanbana > Gekko (“6”). You can’t do that if the combos are all consolidated into 1-1-1 or 2-2-2 and require you to cycle through them beforehand to reach the skill you need.

That's wrong. It's a proof of you not understanding what was written beforehand. I said exactly how a proper cycling would work, and what MomomiMomi wrote suggests this is what she has in mind.

Apparently I was ignored back then for the sake of arguing with her, or it was not understood. So I'll write it up all nice and dandy, using samurai as the example.

Samurai have these combos:

Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko
Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha
Hakaze > Yukikaze

Fuga > Mangetsu
Fuga > Oka

That means a total of 9 buttons.

By consolidating the LOWER skills under the HIGHER skills, we remove the need for lower skills. That's left with only the finishers, so 5 skills. You will have Gekko, Kasha, Yukikaze, Mangetsu and Oka. If you use Meikyo Shisui to quickly stack buffs, you will need to add Jinpu and Shifu for a total of 7 skills. Still two buttons saved.

How does that work?! You put these finishers on the hotbar. You have Hakaze and Fuga and can put them on, but you don't. They are not needed. You push the button for Gekko and the game checks whether its combo effect is triggered. Yes?! It's used. No?! The game checks whether combo effect for Jinpu is triggered. Yes?! It's used. No?! Then game uses Hakaze. Pushed Gekko once, but decided to go for Kasha instead?! Go ahead, Shifu will be used the moment you push it since after pushing Gekko you used Hakaze, triggering combo effect for Shifu as well. Went with Shifu but want to get Gekko after all?! Push Gekko and Hakaze will be used since Shifu doesn't combo into Jinpu or Gekko.
The moment you use Meikyo Shisui, the combo effects for ALL of the finishers are triggered, so the moment you push Gekko, Kasha, Yukikaze, Mangetsu or Oka they are used, because the game sees the combo triggered. It doesn't need to start from Hakaze/Fuga because the combo is NOT dependent on what you pushed last (this is true for abilities as well, so the combo will NOT reset if you use an ability in the middle), but on whether the combo effect is triggered.

The only time when this combo method would have hiccups is with combos that have multiple foundations for the same effect. For example skills Strike and Pound would be combo starters and skill Beat Up would trigger as a combo from either of them. Like get an effect from Strike or get potency from Pound. At that point this method would not work. However, that method is NOT used currently.


In all cases, you could still put all of the skills on your hot bars if you want. Though unless there's a "turn off consolidated combos" a miss-click would still work up like that, possibly "fixing" an error.