Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's actually more like 111, 222, 333, with oGCDs throw in between and whatever other abilities you have. The current system we have now doesn't require any more thought into it than the pvp combos do, they just require more buttons. Before you've pressed your 1, 2, or 3, you already predetermined what your second and third button presses are going to be.

And yet a primary complaint amongst healers is their DPS rotation consists of spamming 1 endlessly. A good number want the old HW skills back just so they have more buttons to push. Reducing our combos to a single button negates the feeling of a combo entirely. You're just spamming the same key, which gets repetitive. It may not seem like much but it's a big reason fighting games have you enter different button sequences. It's a physiological thing. For a lot of people simply moving their fingers from 1234 gives the illusion of a more engaging system. This is why so many people despise Stormblood PvP right now. And it's failure is why I don't see them porting over the combo consolidation.

[MomomiMomi]

And yet a primary complaint amongst healers is their DPS rotation consists of spamming 1 endlessly. A good number want the old HW skills back just so they have more buttons to push. Reducing our combos to a single button negates the feeling of a combo entirely. You're just spamming the same key, which gets repetitive. It may not seem like much but it's a big reason fighting games have you enter different button sequences. It's a physiological thing. For a lot of people simply moving their fingers from 1234 gives the illusion of a more engaging system. This is why so many people despise Stormblood PvP right now. And it's failure is why I don't see them porting over the combo consolidation.

Then make it optional. You can keep your button bloat if you want, and others can get rid of it.

...

None of the things you mentioned would be affected by the combo consolidation. You can still do all of that.

Yea, but not all jobs have button bloat and reducing some of the skills down is going to murder some other jobs like MNK and it's finishers due to positionals. There's not going to be a perfect system without other problems coming out.

Mind explaining how it would affect MNK positionals? I don't see how it would. It would play exactly how it does now, except you'd press one button three times instead of three different buttons.

[Sigma-Astra]

Mind explaining how it would affect MNK positionals? I don't see how it would. It would play exactly how it does now, except you'd press one button three times instead of three different buttons.

Because there are multiple sets requiring certain positionals and they would have to adjust the potency for certain things like Demolish. You have Bootshine, True Strike, and Demolish that all have to be done in the back of the target, meanwhile, you have other things like Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, and Snap Punch on the side. This presents two problems actually because you don't learn Dragon Kick until lvl 50, so that side combo already has a problem.

And theoretically, any MNK would refresh Demolish every 3 combos, but if you're condensing the Monk abilities to just basically turn into 1-1-1, then you'd have adjust Demolish to refresh every 2 combos unless the combos work in a way where you can go 1-1-2 or 2-2-1

It can be done, if done correctly, but it is NOT as simple as you think by just them turning everything into 1-1-1 and then it all works perfectly. As the combos are now, we would have to completely re-tune when certain abilities are used and learned. It would require a full redesign of MNK and possibly any job with positionals.

Dragoon might not have as much of a difficulty, and possibly ninja might be in the same boat....but, monk wouldn't be that easy or not in a very good spot if it was done incorrectly.

And honestly? I don't trust them doing it correctly. And really, they should fix skills like One Ilm Punch before deciding to make everything 1-1-1.

[Kirsten_Rev]

Then make it optional. You can keep your button bloat if you want, and others can get rid of it.

I find it surprising that most people seem to think XIV's combat style is too slow / too boring, and yet here we are, seeing arguments in favour of dumbing it down more.

Shifting combos to work via multiple presses of a single button would be a mistake. The fundamental issue I have with the idea is that it would reduce my sense of control over my character. There should be nothing 'artificially predicted' about my actions, which condensing combos to a 111 sort of format (as opposed to a 123) would inevitably do. And, making this optional wouldn't be a reasonable path forward, because it would be easier for a player to achieve optimal performance under this redesign, since a 111 system would never be prone to fingers twitching or a player not executing actions in the proper order. There'd be inevitable pressure to use this mode of 'play'.

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Look, I've got issues with FFXIV's approach to creating challenge. It's entirely too reliant on the memorization of fight mechanics, and doesn't involve nearly enough dynamic decision-making. But I really don't think hacking away at the dexterity required to play the game in the name of condensed control schemes is the right approach. There is such a thing as too much streamlining, and anything that removes my sense of control over my character in combat falls into that category, so far as I'm concerned.

[MomomiMomi]

I'm going to guess that most of the people against it don't play on a controller, where of the 8 buttons you have immediate access to, 6 of them are dedicated to executing your combos. Which makes accessing any other buttons really clunky.

[Sigma-Astra]

I'm going to guess that most of the people against it don't play on a controller, where of the 8 buttons you have immediate access to, 6 of them are dedicated to executing your combos. Which makes accessing any other buttons really clunky.

I'm a PS4 player.....

[MomomiMomi]

I'm a PS4 player.....

I also doubt you even know how the combo consolidation even works based on your posts.

[Sigma-Astra]

I also doubt you even know how the combo consolidation even works based on your posts.

Nice ad hominem because you can't come up with anything else. I'll move on now, thanks. Clearly, you can't offer a good critique or debunk what I said about monk after I explained it to you because you asked nicely.

So yea, guess we're done here. Especially since someone has decided to throw a temper tantrum because they don't like being told that they're wrong to their face.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm going to guess that most of the people against it don't play on a controller, where of the 8 buttons you have immediate access to, 6 of them are dedicated to executing your combos. Which makes accessing any other buttons really clunky.

I play exclusively on a controller, and I’ve never had an issue with button bloat on any job I play (and I do play a pet class—SCH).

Each hotbar has 16 buttons by default. Using the extended cross (L2+R2 and R2+L2) gives you 16 more (this is not clunky to activate once you train your fingers to properly access it). Making using of the W-crossbar gives you 16 more (I don’t use this, but I’ve never heard complaints of clunkiness with regards to this either). That’s 48 buttons, not including that you can have up to 8 sets of regular crossbars if you want to have ones for “out of combat things” like mounts, minions, menu buttons, etc., and ones for “in-combat things” like skills (it is possible to customize these based on having weapons drawn or sheathed last I checked. Buttons are not an issue on controller anymore, and very few jobs use up all 48 of those available spots. The key is people need to use the resources available to them instead of just throwing their hands up and crying “button bloat”.

I asked about Monk because I don't play Monk, neither in PvE or PvP. I don't know what its combos look like in PvP.

I don’t play MNK, but I do play BRD, and I dislike their PvP setup.

The way BRD’s skills are set up currently, it only allows for 2 songs (Minuet and Army’s Paeon), Barrage cannot be used in Minuet (which is where you would use your damage buff Raging Strikes) but only in Army’s Paeon (your most lackluster song in terms of damage contribution). Bloodletter is only accessible in one of the songs, not readily accessible during all three songs (or two in PvP).

We don’t have a main combo, but our rotation is primarily DoT upkeep (via Iron Jaws) > Straight Shot buff upkeep > Heavy shot filler while we weave in oGCDs and wait for procs (Pitch Perfect in Minuet, and Bloodletter resets in Mage’s Ballad, and Refulgent Arrow). Currently, the PvP set up consolidates Straight Shot and Heavy Shot, alternating between the two as spam—this is not how these skills work individually. The only good aspect of it is that both of our DoTs are in a single button, but we have no Iron Jaws to refresh them with, so we have to constantly reapply them every 30 seconds, and we wait 2 GCDs doing so as opposed to just 1 with IJ.

And this isn’t including all the differences, just a few.

Significant changes would have to be made to the PvP layout for my job to even make it viable in PvE. This isn’t including anything they would change in 5.0 or 6.0 or 7.0, and skills they may add.

And no matter what it looks like, you have to consider that it could be added in optionally.

And that would probably be the day I either become a full-time crafter/gatherer, or just quit outright. I find the PvP consolidation mind-numbing and unengaging (as well as frustrating because I lost half of my toolkit), and I would hate to see it transition over into PvE. It’s doubtful the developers would make it “optional” either; a change like this would likely be forced on everyone.

[MomomiMomi]

I play exclusively on a controller, and I’ve never had an issue with button bloat on any job I play (and I do play a pet class—SCH).

Each hotbar has 16 buttons by default. Using the extended cross (L2+R2 and R2+L2) gives you 16 more (this is not clunky to activate once you train your fingers to properly access it). Making using of the W-crossbar gives you 16 more (I don’t use this, but I’ve never heard complaints of clunkiness with regards to this either). That’s 48 buttons, not including that you can have up to 8 sets of regular crossbars if you want to have ones for “out of combat things” like mounts, minions, menu buttons, etc., and ones for “in-combat things” like skills (it is possible to customize these based on having weapons drawn or sheathed last I checked. Buttons are not an issue on controller anymore, and very few jobs use up all 48 of those available spots. The key is people need to use the resources available to them instead of just throwing their hands up and crying “button bloat”.

I use those. They are clunky compared to accessing the default 16 buttons, where I would prefer to have my buttons that I'd like immediate access to. They're fine for less used abilities, but things like oGCD would be better accessed in the same 8 buttons where your combos are. But that's not possible.