Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[Sigma-Astra]

Jobs should interact with each other more for some sort of bonus. As it stands right now, "teamwork" is just being individually good at the job you are doing whilst in a group. However, none of our jobs are linked by any sort of system in combat that could facilitate teamwork.

I have thought about how Skillchains and Magic Bursts from FFXI could be brought into XIV for more interesting combat. Unfortunately, I cannot find a good place for such a system due to the strict individuality each job is stuck in. Specifically DPS jobs, they are stuck in doing their rotation and doing it fast because you don't want Enochian to drop, you don't want Blood of the Dragon to drop, you don't want Greased Lightning to drop. It's these strict, time limited systems that make for great individual jobs, but also do not allow any sort of system to be added that might involve teamwork or slowing the pace of combat for a moment or just not doing the rotation for a time. No one likes to stop doing the rotation or having a buff drop due to these systems for each job. It's a bad situation this games combat is in if it ever wants to evolve, it'll have to get ripped out from the roots completely and we know this will never happen.

I can't see them doing a gradual transition to a new system either. I just can't see it, but this is because I'm not even sure what I personally want from XIVs combat. I do hate its constantly-clicky nature though. It's likely why I love healing so much more. Less clicky.

As a BLM main, I am A-Ok with it's strict, time limited system for my rotation. If they strip the way my rotation works regarding in PvE and they start melding crap together like they did in PvP (I used to love PvP on BLM, now I hate it), then I'll more than likely quit the game.

[Maeka]

It's actually more like 111, 222, 333, with oGCDs throw in between and whatever other abilities you have. The current system we have now doesn't require any more thought into it than the pvp combos do, they just require more buttons. Before you've pressed your 1, 2, or 3, you already predetermined what your second and third button presses are going to be.

I don't know if I would go that far, I mean it really depends on the class/job in XIV and there are things like random procs in some of them, such as Firestarter and Thundercloud. And the rotations tend to be complex enough that you have to actually keep track of where you were (or use the job gauge), unless you get so ridiculously good that you don't even have to think about it... but most average people aren't like That though.

[MomomiMomi]

I don't know if I would go that far, I mean it really depends on the class/job in XIV and there are things like random procs in some of them, such as Firestarter and Thundercloud. And the rotations tend to be complex enough that you have to actually keep track of where you were (or use the job gauge), unless you get so ridiculously good that you don't even have to think about it... but most average people aren't like That though.

I was specifically talking about combos. Things like Riposte > Zwerchhau > Redoublement. Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko. etc.. You've already determined what you're going to do (Redoublement, Gekko, Kasha, etc.) before you've even pressed the first button of the combo. So simplifying the combo into that first button is just a QoL change that would make us press less buttons but achieve the same outcome, and even the same process, minus the button bloat.

[Darrcyphfeid]

It's actually more like 111, 222, 333, with oGCDs throw in between and whatever other abilities you have. The current system we have now doesn't require any more thought into it than the pvp combos do, they just require more buttons. Before you've pressed your 1, 2, or 3, you already predetermined what your second and third button presses are going to be.

Aye, but that picture is an old meme. A shorthand for "there's a disconnect between what's happening on the screen and what a player is doing."

There have been a couple comments in this thread already in the vein of people not feeling like any action has any real weight or meaning to/behind it. Strip away the engagement, for lack of a better word, of pressing 2 after 1 instead of pressing 1 twice and that problem becomes worse. It especially becomes worse when they implement single button combos if they haven't redesigned jobs to be more fun at lower levels by then.

Edit: It's worth mentioning, too, that just because it may feel good in PvP doesn't necessarily mean it would feel good in PvE. One is fast and unpredictable, and the other is anything but.

[NessaWyvern]

It's not dumbing down to make it playable. 35 skills is way too many. 20-25 would be a good compromise for pve. Seems theres some confusion as to what is dumbing down and what is just part of keeping a game designed well as they expand upon it.

For a while, I used to play scholar in pvp, when HW came out. There were 38 skills all up (not including pet abilities) however, scholar in general, had a fair few more skills than the average class, and it wasn't that hard to manage them (and I didn't have a fancy gaming mouse then).

^ This is what my old hotbar used to look like

PS4 players would of course, struggle with a controller set-up. . Basically, if you knew your class in PvE, it wasn't too hard to add the PvP abilities in there. There were so many neat little tricks you could do, that newer players wouldn't even realize you could do. It rewarded people for their experience.


And yes, it IS dumbing down. For example, AST, you used to manage cards in pvp, which cards you would keep, which to royal road, etc. Now? You're just stuck with what ever card you get, and you get 2 options. Use the card, or burn it for a HoT/or damage. Oh, and they have no more aoe heals, so you spend most of the match spamming Benefic heals on people for the instant cast proc.

[MomomiMomi]

And yes, it IS dumbing down. For example, AST, you used to manage cards in pvp, which cards you would keep, which to royal road, etc. Now? You're just stuck with what ever card you get, and you get 2 options. Use the card, or burn it for a HoT/or damage. Oh, and they have no more aoe heals, so you spend most of the match spamming Benefic heals on people for the instant cast proc.

As a PvP AST, I actually prefer what it is now compared to what it was before.

[NessaWyvern]

You don't miss the aoe heals? The Attune through burst damage? The aoe bind with Blizz 2? Being able to sprint whenever you wanted, and not having to sacrifice an ability slot for it? Being able to use Esuna on people, to ruin Bard and SMN bursts?

Because I do.

[Riko_Futatabi]

As a BLM main, I am A-Ok with it's strict, time limited system for my rotation. If they strip the way my rotation works regarding in PvE and they start melding crap together like they did in PvP (I used to love PvP on BLM, now I hate it), then I'll more than likely quit the game.

No one asking for the PVP system LOL.

[KarstenS]

@OP: I really would like to see a gameplay footage of you. I have heard or read your arguments many times over the years and after watching how they played, it was more a thing how the system got used than the system itself.

[Maeka]

I was specifically talking about combos. Things like Riposte > Zwerchhau > Redoublement. Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko. etc.. You've already determined what you're going to do (Redoublement, Gekko, Kasha, etc.) before you've even pressed the first button of the combo. So simplifying the combo into that first button is just a QoL change that would make us press less buttons but achieve the same outcome, and even the same process, minus the button bloat.

Except for classes that have oGCD abilities that modify your DPS and/or abilities that don't impact your Combos.

For example, Re-Assemble for MCH. I don't want a Normal->Slug->Clean shot combo button because there are times I want might to Re-assemble in the middle of that, or reload.

Or, for Ninja, I might do the following:

1-> 2 (sees Ninki get 70, do Bhackrava or Hellfrog since that does not disrupt combos) -> 3

Or PLD...

Throw Shield, Fast Blade, Flash, Savage Blade, Flash, Rage of Halone. Same with DRK and Unleash. Or what about Provoke? Fast Blade, oh crap an add came in and is chewing on the healer, Provoke+Flash! .. Savage Blade, Rage of Halone. I'd hate to have to wait nearly 5 seconds for the combo routine to finish before dumping that provoke on that new add that just came.

There are times you want to use oGCDs and non-Combo disruptive abilities in-between combo abilities.

OR, what about Target Switching?

Sometimes as a PLD, I like to split Savage Blade and Rage of Halone up on separate targets. Or, in AoE situations on my Ninja I might be in the middle of my combo and see that another target is low enough to Assassinate, so switch target, Assassinate, switch back to mine to continue the combo.

etc etc etc.