So, how is Pagos?

[Zsolen]

Pagos argues otherwise. NM spawns were drastically low relatively to the sheer number of mobs required to kill. I don't fancy it good content when I'm bored to tears for 95% of it, then finally get to do something cool. In Anemos you'd average 20-30 NMs an instance easily. With Pagos, you were lucky to see six in the same time span before the changes. We'll see if these adjustments improve that.



No, you're defending what many people consider boring, tedious content. A good number of us asking for the train back in full force do so because it's the lesser of two evils. While flawed, I at least could socialize and have a little fun once NMs spawned. I get none of that in Pagos because chaining 600+ mobs isn't fun.

That's when NMs are boring, and half the time I have to fight mobs trolls brought to keep lowbies alive.

You even called the train evil. Nobody wins with the train. If the content is evil, why play it?

[Ignimortis]

I don't like Pagos. I didn't particularly like Anemos, either, but Anemos was sort of close to what casual content should be, when the FATE train got set up - a rather easy, if time-consuming way to get things (to be honest, iLVL 355 was kind of an insult, since we had that at 4.2 launch with Byakko). Still, it wasn't that boring that nobody would bother, and it was easy enough to do.

However, Pagos was implemented...badly. Those who actually went to Pagos after it launched were mostly people who already did their raiding and had Diamond gear, in my experience, and very few casual players would bother with chains, because while it's not exactly hard, it's dull and mind-numbing. And the worst part, it's slow. It's so slow that I couldn't help but think "maybe I should try and PF Deltascape Savages, at least that should be fun at some point, and it'd take me less time for most of them, probably".

Considering that 370 Tomestone weapons don't require any measurable effort at all (1k tomestones is 5 hours per week twice, Kefka Normal x4 is another hour, Ridorana+Rabanastre are about 2 hours total = that's an investment of 13-15 hours at worst, easily doable on an "1 hour per day" schedule.

People who actually got Pagos weapons in the first two weeks usually didn't get more than 2 so far. That's basically raid-scale, considering time required per weapon. Imagine going into "casual" relic content and getting stuff at the same speed people got their raid gear when 4.2 launched.

The current implementation is a bit better, but it's still not really "casual content" unless you're riding the train. There should've been something more than challenge log that demands you kill 240 samey mobs per week for 1.5 levels at best. Quests, maybe, soloable FATEs? Something actually casual, since the relic is barely better than Tomestone weapons.

[Deceptus]

Considering that 370 Tomestone weapons don't require any measurable effort at all (1k tomestones is 5 hours per week twice, Kefka Normal x4 is another hour, Ridorana+Rabanastre are about 2 hours total = that's an investment of 13-15 hours at worst, easily doable on an "1 hour per day" schedule.

Small gripe but the 360 weapon required 3 weeks of time to get at minimum (450 x 2 weeks plus an extra 100 the third to get to 1000) and until recently took 7 weeks of Kefka. Small time investment but it took way too long to get those weekly tomes.

They really need to keep it at 4 weekly tomes always.

[Ignimortis]

Small gripe but the 360 weapon required 3 weeks of time to get at minimum (450 x 2 weeks plus an extra 100 the third to get to 1000) and until recently took 7 weeks of Kefka. Small time investment but it took way too long to get those weekly tomes.

They really need to keep it at 4 weekly tomes always.

Noted, that's true for the 4.2-4.35 cycle. However, it was nerfed in the same patch Pagos dropped. So there's either 15 hours (from 0 tomestones and 0 crystalloids, if you're coming back from a long break or smth) over 15 days (2 weeks and the reset day), or grind Pagos mercilessly. And Anemos was only iLVL 355, so while it took less time overall (maybe 3 or 4 days of grinding for 8 hours per day, if you got a good timeframe), it was still kinda on the same level as the 360 "I do one normal raid per week and expert roulette sometimes" Tomestone weapon. It's probably the same investment hour-wise, only Anemos could be forced through in a week.

I do agree with the 4 weekly thingamajigs always, though. Hardcore raiders get their 375 way faster, and you don't get upgrades for 360 tomestone weapons until 4.5 months later in a 24-man raid, unless you actually do Savages anyway.

[Ilan]

Small gripe but the 360 weapon required 3 weeks of time to get at minimum (450 x 2 weeks plus an extra 100 the third to get to 1000) and until recently took 7 weeks of Kefka. Small time investment but it took way too long to get those weekly tomes.

They really need to keep it at 4 weekly tomes always.

Well it takes 3 weeks time yes but it doesn't nearly take as much playtime as grinding in eureka because with 15 hours you won't get even close.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That's when NMs are boring, and half the time I have to fight mobs trolls brought to keep lowbies alive.

You even called the train evil. Nobody wins with the train. If the content is evil, why play it?

You find NMs boring because of the train. Key difference. While far from perfect, I found them fun. Whereas, in Pagos, I was so bored, I actually questioned whether I ought to remain subbed.

I called it the lesser of two evils. As in, neither system is well thought out. One salvages enough enjoyment I don't mind doing it. The other, well, I'd rather do nothing than chain brainless mobs with FFXIV's combat.

[Zsolen]

You find NMs boring because of the train. Key difference. While far from perfect, I found them fun. Whereas, in Pagos, I was so bored, I actually questioned whether I ought to remain subbed.

I called it the lesser of two evils. As in, neither system is well thought out. One salvages enough enjoyment I don't mind doing it. The other, well, I'd rather do nothing than chain brainless mobs with FFXIV's combat.

That's exactly what I said. I wasn't implying how you felt. I don't care if you remain subbed, just like you don't care if I do.

So just tag NMs? That's fun? There is more danger in chaining at least.

[SendohJin]

That's exactly what I said. I wasn't implying how you felt. I don't care if you remain subbed, just like you don't care if I do.

So just tag NMs? That's fun? There is more danger in chaining at least.

No one should care if any single player remains subbed. Everyone should care if lots of people unsub for similar reasons.

Tagging NMs is not fun but repeatedly doing the FFXIV rotation on most jobs non-stop is even worse for most people. FFXIV's combat was not built that way.

i can do EX/Savage/HoH/Dungeons/Trains non-stop for 2-3 hours no problem. 30 mins of chaining i get super bored and 1 hour in i have to stop.

[Zsolen]

No one should care if any single player remains subbed. Everyone should care if lots of people unsub for similar reasons.

Tagging NMs is not fun but repeatedly doing the FFXIV rotation on most jobs non-stop is even worse for most people. FFXIV's combat was not built that way.

i can do EX/Savage/HoH/Dungeons/Trains non-stop for 2-3 hours no problem. 30 mins of chaining i get super bored and 1 hour in i have to stop.

People say that "you can still chain," but don't like it when I say the chain is more effective. Why must every post be answered with the same response that chaining is no fun?

I was talking to someone about efficiency but that was sidetracked by someone complaining that I favored chaining over the train in terms of fun.

[SendohJin]

People say that "you can still chain," but don't like it when I say the chain is more effective. Why must every post be answered with the same response that chaining is no fun?

because nothing else matters when that's true. they built an FFXI leveling system into the game without taking into consideration the difference in FFXIV's combat system.