How to give advice

[JohnSeal]

Is this like...personal experience? Cause...you should only speak for yourself and not make a blanket statement like this.

I can do more than 2k on a DPS job with no guide, in fact I rarely look at guides for jobs.

You don't need to exert much brain power to come up with a basic rotation that can give anywhere from 50%-80% of what the job is capable of depending on how well you take the time understand the abilities the job has and the math by examining tooltips.

The game is not that complex where you need a guide telling you exactly the order to do all of your button presses on that job in order to do above average on it.

Also, I even suck at math, but I still manage.

2k dps at the moment would be simply a case of not pressing buttons, you can roll your face on the keyboard and do 2k right now.

Sadly this is something I notice....a lot of players who are lacking in their jobs are often players who simply cannot seem to manage to continuously be pressing buttons and be active throughout the fight. It destroys your DPS more than anything else to waste GCDs.

If you want to know how braindead easy 2k dps is.....non-combo jobs (RDM/BLM/SMN/BRD/MCH) can do 2k dps just pressing one button over and over...some jobs can even do more than 2k just spamming one button.

Combo jobs like NIN/SAM/MNK/DRG can do 2k dps or more just using one combo over and over. So 1-2-3-1-2-3 over and over and the game even lights it up for you.

Hmmmm... I said 2k just as SYMBOLIC number, it can be 3,2.5 or three doesn’t matter.
I totally appreciate people that learn by themselves,if you can master a class by using your own brain and can optimise a rotation getting good result you are great !
I was referring to many players in general that are doing everything wrong and don’t understand the basic of their jobs.

[Jijifli]

I was referring to many players in general that are doing everything wrong and don’t understand the basic of their jobs.

And when I was legit saying when they don't listen, you slapped me with...

Most of people learn with time and you can’t pressure them “too much”

So is Asking them to do 1 2 3 too pressuring, or them not trying to learn?

Constructive criticism is so much fun fiction lol
A fancy way to justify you to criticise others,NOT YOU!

Also, is this not, as you describe it, criticism? The whole post of this I cut off even just further proved the point. Nessa was trying to be nice, focusing on what could be causing the issue with a simple way to fix it. Instead, you went all, "Well mine have thought in them," completely ignoring the point of the advice.

So... Good job? Thanks for proving my point.

[JohnSeal]

You know there is such thing as bad advice, and there is such thing as constructive criticism, right? Not all criticism is unappreciated, and not all advice is good for the community.

Your use of smilies, lols and over-positivity is coming off as slightly patronizing. It's my advice to you to tone it down a tiny bit, and have a more neutral tone. I'm sure many people are replying to your comments simply because it's rubbing them the wrong way.

Constructive criticism is so much fun fiction lol
A fancy way to justify you to criticise others,NOT YOU!
I honestly can’t take seriously ppl that get so much upset over a thread really xD
I never had a neutral tone in my life and I definitely won’t . I can’t use adjective to classify many behaviour or way to see things here on the forum :P
Patronising hmmm, more like advice trying to send positive vibes and give reinforcements.

And we have so much sarcasm here of all kind, meme that may offend other people way to think.
There are players that just say bad things or are condescending,I really see little posts except mines being thoughtful and sensed.
Others are just saying things in a really rough way and only after few hours or posts I understood how they really feel.

[JohnSeal]

And when I was legit saying when they don't listen, you slapped me with...



So is Asking them to do 1 2 3 too pressuring, or them not trying to learn?

No I would never slap anyone I am kind of a teddy bear (:
Anyway no your request are fairly acceptable !!
Ppl should learn the basic, still we can’t go at people house and encourage them to read their toolkit and do a bit of practice.

Just my friendly advise: don’t let people stand in the way of your fun, don’t get upset over a minority of players. You are good and can be proud of yourself, if you have an active FC you can find there people want to learn and receive help. If you have crown you own it,it’s a part of you!
You don’t fight negativity with other negativity, if people don’t wan to learn it’s on them,just ignore them as many of us do

[Jijifli]

Just my friendly advise: don’t let people stand in the way of your fun

You can't tell me to have fun or not. You aren't paying my sub.

Oh. This sounds familiar.

[JohnSeal]

I think perhaps the fact that English isn't your first language is negatively impacting your ability to participate in this thread and this post is a great example of it.

Criticism and advice are synonyms. They may not mean exactly the same thing but in many instances they are interchangeable. All criticism is advice while not all advice is criticism which also might be confusing you.

If someone says 'Your DoT uptime is particularly low, if you focus on bringing that up it will help your dps. I used Iron Jaws as I started playing each song when I was getting started on BRD, maybe try that.'

The entire thing is advice. The part about DoT uptime being particularly low is criticism. None of it is 'toxic' or bad in any way though, despite pointing out a flaw. Things like 'omg uninstall scrub' or 'you suck' aren't criticism or advice, they're just rude comments.

I hope this helps bridge the potential language barrier here so this thread can move on. For the record there are a plethora of mistakes in virtually all if your posts that could not be attributed to 'the damn keyboard changing words' so perhaps be more open to the idea that while you may speak English fluently there is always more to learn.

Also, yes, that was both criticism and advice.

Your point is sensed,I understand what you say.
The fact is that everybody got different way to express themselves,nodoby in chats or forum can see faces or hear tones. Like you for example often sound really condescending, maybe your are not but it’s how you sound by writing.
I am not criticising,you can write as you want and you can be a great person that give sincere opinions or not only you know it!
Another person said I sound like patronising, that’s no at all !! Maximum condescending but that’s what she get from my typing.

My point being, if someone want give advices or help that’s welcome but they need to try to make it sound like that!

You know that translate English in other languages some things sound really rude? Auto translate are not accurate tho

Anyway I started replying to this thread when I saw people talking like most of community is bad and duty roulettes are horrors, I don’t think they are!!
You get set back in an instance when the tank can’t aggro 3 monsters or a healer is clueless but if DPS are not competent you go really slowly but that’s maximum boring not damaging.
If you join duty roulettes be ready to find inexperienced players sometimes so people need to live with that.

In anyway I don’t appreciate criticism and I don’t want people to shoot critics to others in my instances, if someone offend or harass get kicked, if underperform I will shut up and be patient

[NessaWyvern]

Constructive criticism is so much fun fiction lol
A fancy way to justify you to criticise others,NOT YOU!

^ Like Jijifli said earlier, this is technically criticism, (and not constructive criticism). If going by your own advice, you shouldn't have said this. So you in your own words were just "impolite,rude,unsettling and not appreciate".

Also, relating to this comment; I criticize myself all the time. Like when I am on my RDM and I forget to use my manafication when I am 40+/40+ and start the melee combo, it just completely ruins the RDM rotation. It's really stupid of me to do it, as I should always check to see that the bars are 80+/80+ , because if not, I have to build up that mana again I just wasted and I lose a lot of dps. (Plus I really enjoy the Verholy's and Verflare's at the end, so I feel angry when I ruin that great feeling of casting it for myself).

As for constructive criticism, it is a very real term in the english language, and when I was doing a paper at university called "Communications in the Sciences" they discussed constructive criticism at length, about what it is and what it isn't. The bare bones of it, is basically criticism in a polite way, combined with advice as to how to improve. As in "This is what you're doing wrong, this is how you fix it". And it is only given if the person thinks it would help the person they are giving the constructive criticism to in the long run.

By your earlier comments, I think you are getting criticism mixed up with Destructive Criticism, and example of destructive criticism is "Your dps is bad, you should uninstall the game." This is criticism that does not help the person it was given to in any way, shape or form.

Also, your comment sounded really patronizing, I don't know if you know it, but I'll assume that you didn't mean it to be. For example, that "Lol" and dismissing what I said as fiction, could give the impression that you could be laughing at me/my comment, and don't think very much of it. And assuming I only use it criticize others and I can't take criticism /don't criticize myself?
That kind of tone is really going to rub people the wrong way, and in the long run could be damaging to your discussion. People are not going to convert to your way of thinking if they think they are being insulted.

I really see little posts except mines being thoughtful and sensed.

^ And this? This comment is almost textbook condescension.

I never had a neutral tone in my life and I definitely won’t .

They also discussed in the paper how important neutral tones were in discussions, because accidentally offending someone is not the way you change their minds about something. Neutral tones can help prevent this. Neutral tones also tend to make it easier for people to read and understand a point. So I again, am going to offer my friendly advice to maybe have your tone more neutral, as I think it might help you in the long run. You are welcome to take the advice, or leave it.

[MoroMurasaki]

Your point is sensed,I understand what you say.
The fact is that everybody got different way to express themselves,nodoby in chats or forum can see faces or hear tones. Like you for example often sound really condescending, maybe your are not but it’s how you sound by writing.
I am not criticising,you can write as you want and you can be a great person that give sincere opinions or not only you know it!
Another person said I sound like patronising, that’s no at all !! Maximum condescending but that’s what she get from my typing.

My point being, if someone want give advices or help that’s welcome but they need to try to make it sound like that!

You know that translate English in other languages some things sound really rude? Auto translate are not accurate tho

Anyway I started replying to this thread when I saw people talking like most of community is bad and duty roulettes are horrors, I don’t think they are!!
You get set back in an instance when the tank can’t aggro 3 monsters or a healer is clueless but if DPS are not competent you go really slowly but that’s maximum boring not damaging.
If you join duty roulettes be ready to find inexperienced players sometimes so people need to live with that.

In anyway I don’t appreciate criticism and I don’t want people to shoot critics to others in my instances, if someone offend or harass get kicked, if underperform I will shut up and be patient

I promise I try as well as I can to relay my real feelings in every post I make. If some of them come off condescending it's likely my intent because I feel the expressed views that I am responding to are having or will have a negative impact on the game as a whole.

At the end of the day no one is asking you specifically to give advice. If you aren't comfortable doing that it is totally fine. The conversation is about people who do (at least sometimes) feel capable of giving advice.

The demonization of all advice based on the rude tone that some advice might carry is a problem. It is at the core of "you don't pay my sub" culture; this notion that if someone gives any unsolicited advice at any point they are doing something wrong/mean/hurtful.

Everyone is responsible for their own play just as everyone is able to make decisions about what sorts of play they are willing to surround themselves with. If someone is not going to tolerate dps not aoeing large trash pulls I think suggesting the AoE rotation for that class is vastly preferable to a silent kick. This is just one example but if you look at the big picture there is no harm in teaching people what they need to know in order to play this game at what is considered an acceptable level for the content they are in.

Twelve know that SE sure isn't going to teach anything resembling a proper rotation so they have left it to players.

Edit: In a perfect world none of this would be an issue because people would take the time to.learn about their job and role. That just simply isn't the game we play in. If you think I am going to allow someone else's laziness or incompetence to infringe on my enjoyment of my playtime you have another thing coming.

My bar is not high - I expect basic things like a healer who isn't jumping around doing nothing, a tank that holds threat and mitigates and dps who do more dps than the tank and the healer. If people are meeting those standards there is likely nothing for me to comment on in casual content.

[JohnSeal]

You can't tell me to have fun or not. You aren't paying my sub.

Oh. This sounds familiar.

I was just giving you a suggestion !! Please don’t take me giving one advice like being disrespectful.
I don’t like to see people sad and get upset that’s all.
After many post of yours my opinion is now that you are not toxic or a bad guys but just upset at the community for many reasons.

[JohnSeal]

I promise I try as well as I can to relay my real feelings in every post I make. If some of them come off condescending it's likely my intent because I feel the expressed views that I am responding to are having or will have a negative impact on the game as a whole.

At the end of the day no one is asking you specifically to give advice. If you aren't comfortable doing that it is totally fine. The conversation is about people who do (at least sometimes) feel capable of giving advice.

The demonization of all advice based on the rude tone that some advice might carry is a problem. It is at the core of "you don't pay my sub" culture; this notion that if someone gives any unsolicited advice at any point they are doing something wrong/mean/hurtful.

Everyone is responsible for their own play just as everyone is able to make decisions about what sorts of play they are willing to surround themselves with. If someone is not going to tolerate dps not aoeing large trash pulls I think suggesting the AoE rotation for that class is vastly preferable to a silent kick. This is just one example but if you look at the big picture there is no harm in teaching people what they need to know in order to play this game at what is considered an acceptable level for the content they are in.

Twelve know that SE sure isn't going to teach anything resembling a proper rotation so they have left it to players.

Edit: In a perfect world none of this would be an issue because people would take the time to.learn about their job and role. That just simply isn't the game we play in. If you think I am going to allow someone else's laziness or incompetence to infringe on my enjoyment of my playtime you have another thing coming.

My bar is not high - I expect basic things like a healer who isn't jumping around doing nothing, a tank that holds threat and mitigates and dps who do more dps than the tank and the healer. If people are meeting those standards there is likely nothing for me to comment on in casual content.

Yes I understand! Your post are thoughtful and may I agree or not I feel their are your honest opinions.
You can be condescending or not that’s totally fine!! You don’t offend or harrass.

I was just making a point on tones and way to say things.

The conception of “you don’t pay my sub “ it’s wrong I agree. I personally never find nobody saying to me.
I rarely give advice because I don’t care really.

Yes I agree with you, your expectations are normal and fair.