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  1. #71
    Player
    Sigma-Astra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,085
    Character
    Soma Kagami
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnSeal View Post
    Unfortunately as you can see in “Tales from duty finder “ player skills and effort in game counts even in casual contents like expert. I mean the new expert dangeoun “Swallow compass “ it’s so easy and looks even less requiring than Fractal Hard or Hell’s Lid but still some runs get exhausting sometimes (:
    Funny fact I did the other day Temple of first with 3 bonus and It took 37 minutes... nobody was following any mechanics, no aoes from DPSs and as tank I couldn’t pull more than 5 monsters at the time (Conv/Rampant/anticipation up every mob) we reached the end of it just because if me using clemency on the healer lol
    This Rath ex doesn’t require any skill just ability to dodge like a race car game (:
    Yes, players skills and effort do count in even casual content, unfortunately, the players don't care most of the times. I'm having a hard time believing if you're actually being serious with your responses or simply just trolling by the tone of them. The (: is like a dead giveaway to me that you're playing me for a fiddle.

    It's not a hard concept or an uncommon situation to walk into expert roulette and be doing 100% of the work of your job while everyone is barely doing 50%. So, unfortunately, it doesn't matter if skills and effort count when people don't blatantly care enough to do the proper work.

    As for Rath EX, it takes skill to dodge since evidently this entire thread is about people who can't and how the fight is too challenging for people to pick up on patterns correctly or learn. I mean, by your own logic, Sephirot EX doesn't require skill either, just the ability to dodge like a race car during the final phase.
    (1)

  2. #72
    Player Dualgunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,942
    Character
    Lilila Lila
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    Oh, please. If they added the 3 cart rule to savage you all would hate it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rmBDHS3CCo
    Please Riyah, tell me what else I would hate. I do so love how you always seem to know how I'd feel.

    It has nothing to do with bad players, I check the gear of people and I see just as much diamond gear as not.
    Anecdotes now? Your game is weakening.
    Besides which, bad players *can* clear Savage. People can buy carries, or get carries from friends for instance; or somebody is just that unimportant in the grand scheme of things since the fights are so overgeared now that people can contribute almost nothing and still get clears.

    What gets very old about this is that people are defining "bad" as "not top tier" because apparently everything is "Easy."
    That's more like your perception of what people say when they complain about easy content.

    it makes it very frustrating to have decent discussions of difficulty here because there's like the top 10% (and if you clear savage you are probably less than that) assuming the top 10% of play is actually the average instead. So if th top 10% one-shot a trial, they think EVERYONE should be one-shotting it.
    Whereas you keep assuming that since you don't do savage, every opinion on difficulty you have must be the majority opinion. In other words, I'm calling Sargon's Law on you.

    I mean, I cleared it. I got my scale and a poogle to boot, but it took me 25 runs or so, and the run we cleared no one was allowed to make a single mistake on phase 2. Everything had to be done perfectly. I even had to run the moment rath resolved after the flames because every time he would lunge at the spot i was.
    Congratulations on clearing it!
    (9)

  3. #73
    Player
    Genoreaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    212
    Character
    Geno Reaper
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra View Post
    I mostly agree with you, but the one thing that I'm confused on is how BLM spellspeed affects the ability of dodging mechanics. I can't tell if you're insinuating that with enough spellspeed, it's possible to cast and slidecast easier/faster while in the midst of dodging said mechanics (which would be correct, yes) or if you think that with enough spellspeed, a BLM can miraculously start running faster, lol.

    I thought in the one phase gcdcount meant more than damage done, meaning blm can run around scathing
    (0)

  4. #74
    Player MoroMurasaki's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,612
    Character
    Moro Murasaki
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    it makes it very frustrating to have decent discussions of difficulty here because there's like the top 10% (and if you clear savage you are probably less than that) assuming the top 10% of play is actually the average instead. So if th top 10% one-shot a trial, they think EVERYONE should be one-shotting it.
    I don't understand how you're getting from point A to point B.

    I think you're assuming a lot about the raiding community here and, as often happens with assumptions, you're coming up empty.

    You show me a raider that expects the average player to be able to walk into Savage and clear on their own merit with no time spent on improving and I'll show you an idiot. That's what "expecting top 10% play from everyone" would look like and I just don't see it.
    (5)

  5. #75
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,471
    Character
    Riyah Arpeggio
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Dualgunner View Post
    Congratulations on clearing it!
    The rest of the posts...its late, and to be honest I'm tired of trying to get people to understand my point.

    There's nothing to congrats about. I stayed with it more to prove to people I don't talk about these things because I suck and want them nerfed. That's all. if they require hard content, I'll either grind it till I'm sick of it to be able to do it, or not do it if I can't.
    (1)
    Last edited by RiyahArp; 08-11-2018 at 03:30 PM.

  6. #76
    Player Dualgunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,942
    Character
    Lilila Lila
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    The rest of the posts...its late, and to be honest I'm tired of trying to get people to understand my point.
    That bridge goes two ways, you need to reach out to try to understand others' points as well.

    There's nothing to congrats about. I stayed with it more to prove to people I don't talk about these things because I suck and want them nerfed. That's all. if they require hard content, I'll either grind it till I'm sick of it to be able to do it, or not do it if I can't.
    There's plenty to congratulate. You had motivation and a goal, and you pursued it. Whatever your motivations, you accomplished your goal, and that's worthy of praise. Good job, you beat Rathalos Extreme. You took on the challenge, and you beat it.
    (4)

  7. #77
    Player
    Elkanah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    911
    Character
    Shikaree Sinhunter
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    I stayed with it more to prove to people I don't talk about these things because I suck and want them nerfed.
    And this is exactly what the post was about. I can understand that not everyone will be able to clear the content right away. It's still new. I wouldn't put too much thought and stress into it. By your logic in the way it was described on the original post, nobody should be playing video games whatsoever. But games will still need to have a challenge, and players overcoming that challenge if they want to reap the rewards. Not ALL of it has to be savage, mind you, but give players a reason to improve and overcome to achieve the original objective. Rome wasn't built in a day, and this isn't meant to be cleared day 1. But some players were able to adapt and figure strategies all on their own, and continue on farm. That's what content is meant to bring. Still enjoyable, but not face roll worthy. Hopefully with some luck and time, you continue to stay with it, and get better, and get that mount. That's what matters most.

    I'm going based off of what challenge Monster Hunter World fans faced with Rathalos in the MHW title. As the monster is not a low rank, meaning easy. It's in the high rank, which is where your endgame is in the title. So being as he is, he's actually about as challenging as he would be for new players playing MHW for the first time. He's not meant to be a push over. He's the king of the skies. As for all you veterans, I'm not talking about you lol. You know Rath like you know Zinogre and Nergigante and Black Diablos or the pickle lol.
    (2)
    Last edited by Elkanah; 08-11-2018 at 03:41 PM.

  8. #78
    Player
    Wiccan026's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    All Three, but Limsa was the first
    Posts
    213
    Character
    Cerryl Lorinth
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkanah View Post
    And this is exactly what the post was about. I can understand that not everyone will be able to clear the content right away. It's still new. I wouldn't put too much thought and stress into it. By your logic in the way it was described on the original post, nobody should be playing video games whatsoever. But games will still need to have a challenge, and players overcoming that challenge if they want to reap the rewards. Not ALL of it has to be savage, mind you, but give players a reason to improve and overcome to achieve the original objective. Rome wasn't built in a day, and this isn't meant to be cleared day 1. But some players were able to adapt and figure strategies all on their own, and continue on farm. That's what content is meant to bring. Still enjoyable, but not face roll worthy. Hopefully with some luck and time, you continue to stay with it, and get better, and get that mount. That's what matters most.

    I'm going based off of what challenge Monster Hunter World fans faced with Rathalos in the MHW title. As the monster is not a low rank, meaning easy. It's in the high rank, which is where your endgame is in the title. So being as he is, he's actually about as challenging as he would be for new players playing MHW for the first time. He's not meant to be a push over. He's the king of the skies. As for all you veterans, I'm not talking about you lol. You know Rath like you know Zinogre and Nergigante and Black Diablos or the pickle lol.
    I don't disagree with your overall sentiment, again I think this content deserves to be in the game even if I'm personally not going to go for it quite yet.
    That being said I do think sometimes people over analyze the situation and read far too much into what a player posts (which is semi understandable, written word doesn't always translate well)... I was accused of being a fearmonger earlier because I said I dislike how the content was set up to make healers "semi-useless" and that the current set up does allow cheese to happen (it was also pointed out that all group compositions were going in there... which I never said they weren't) and I don't think the current set up is "fair" for all the roles and I expressed interest mostly in not wanting to see nerf mechanics in four man content (which I even suggested probably wouldn't since this was more of a Monster Hunter thing) and still with all that I get accused of fear mongering.

    Oh well :P
    (2)

  9. #79
    Player
    JohnSeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    151
    Character
    Andre Cat
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra View Post
    Yes, players skills and effort do count in even casual content, unfortunately, the players don't care most of the times. I'm having a hard time believing if you're actually being serious with your responses or simply just trolling by the tone of them. The (: is like a dead giveaway to me that you're playing me for a fiddle.

    It's not a hard concept or an uncommon situation to walk into expert roulette and be doing 100% of the work of your job while everyone is barely doing 50%. So, unfortunately, it doesn't matter if skills and effort count when people don't blatantly care enough to do the proper work.

    As for Rath EX, it takes skill to dodge since evidently this entire thread is about people who can't and how the fight is too challenging for people to pick up on patterns correctly or learn. I mean, by your own logic, Sephirot EX doesn't require skill either, just the ability to dodge like a race car during the final phase.
    I don’t understand why shall I be trolling and about what lol If you are confuse about how I do formulate sentences is because English is not my mother language probably (: Btw I am serious and I was just telling you that even in expert you need to be playing properly and put effort in it.

    About the comparison to Sephirot Ex, I think is different because that trials is pretty difficult and in a sync party there you can’t skip mechs and while dodging you need to keep DPS and healing consistent.
    In Rath ex there is not any DPS check in fact you can clear it with three tanks plus if you kill the tail the dragon takes so much dmg: dodging is the only thing required. My Bf next to me is trying to farm because he got multiple clears but he can’t find today a healer able to keep up with healing and Esuna but that is a matter of manual coordination not abilities with the class.

    I just think that this content stops being fun when you need to try dozens time for a clear, Primals trials are much more enjoyable (:
    (2)

  10. #80
    Player
    Sebazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,468
    Character
    Sebazy Spiritwalker
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RiyahArp View Post
    I even had to run the moment rath resolved after the flames because every time he would lunge at the spot i was.
    If you weren't always automatically running as the third puddle hit, then there's a huge problem right there. Burn ticks can wait few seconds and damage really isn't that important whilst he's in the air. Doing something about the fact that you're a few feet directly infront of him is far more critical. You need to assume that he's always going to come for you at that point or you're going to cost the group runs.

    It's as simple as that.
    (4)
    ~ WHM / badSCH / Snob ~ http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/871132/ ~

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