No more content like Rath Extreme, please.

[RiyahArp]

It's not a fun fight, and many fights have ended in vote abandons because the three strike rule and the single healer is just too punishing.

It's not the speed of the mechanics, its not the lack of telegraphs, it's not even the dodge and no healing of the second phase. It's the fact that three deaths and you are back to start, and its incredibly easy to get those deaths if the healer is the one dead.

In practice it really requires perfect play over 8 minutes,very similar to Feast. And it's not a slow fight, which can intensify this. There is no backup, unlike ex or savage content, so if the healer goes down or is stunned, you may not be able to recover in time. And at the last phase, the healer loses most of the power to compensate for mistakes.

This leads to a very frustrating fight. It's not a matter of skill; I have done runs with people wearing not a few diamond pieces, meaning they do savage. They suffer too. It's just you wind up removing a lot of what makes hard fights in this game tolerable, but you gave us nothing to compensate. No dodge roll, No real debuffing or support class, not many classes who can also esuna, etc.

If you use this as a pattern, it's not going to be good difficulty. And we see people reacting to it by ditching the traditional party and abusing tank's durability, as well as telling others just to wait to outgear it. I've spent a dozen runs watching people just vote abandon at 30 min or more because the fight requires too little mistakes for an MMO. Yes I know MH may have this, but MH also built the game around it and eases you into it over a LOT of hours. This is the first time where the run can really reset so quickly and easily.

I feel like if you want to make difficult fights, you need to really do so within the confines of the game structure. You can't just slap on a requirement for perfect play like that, and end up with imbalanced between jobs as it is. I've seen DPS get one-shot, while tanks eat chains of attacks. People here are doing the same mistake that led to HW; assuming that everyone likes the fight or finds it fun when it's not as cut and dry. Especially in the first week of content, where we don't know how many people will stick with it or not. I already saw 25 min as a DPS queueing for it, only to turn to healer and instapop.

[Nestama]

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Yoshi-P has said there won't be any other 4-man Extremes in the future. Also the 3 KO rule is entirely because it's a MH fight. Unless SE and Capcom plan on doing another collab, you have nothing to worry about.

I will admit that it's not a very interesting fight and Rathy definitely hits much harder than he does in MHW. Final phase is less interesting than the first phase and people only really wipe to it because of the stack marker (it makes you use Potions because of 'unavoidable' damage. Quotations because tanks can kinda cheese it). I guess latency can screw players over, too.

[RiyahArp]

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Yoshi-P has said there won't be any other 4-man Extremes in the future. Also the 3 KO rule is entirely because it's a MH fight. Unless SE and Capcom plan on doing another collab, you have nothing to worry about.

He's said a lot o things. I worry he could see the like for rath, think the solution is more punishing four man content based around various gimmicks that require rath-level of play, and then he wonders why it dried out, if it does. The forums seem to really be uncritical about anything as long as it is hard; there's very few people who argue the opposite and they get shouted down a lot.

[Nihility]

dunno, if it was really as bad as you make it out to be the go to 4 warriors party wouldn't be able to do it so easily would they, they have no healing or esuna afterall?
They made up for the no-dodge roll by making his telegraphs like 5 times slower by the way

He's way easier than just about any other extreme trial btw...
probably even byakko

[Elkanah]

the go to 4 warriors party wouldn't be able to do it so easily would they, they have no healing or esuna afterall?

Inner Beast
Inner Release
8 hits of regain HP
Equilibrium
Storms Path
All first phase.
Second phase is really up to the user.
But yes, you can survive with a 4 WAR strategy, even without a healer present. You don't need to heal Esuna, since the burn is actually not as bad, even with 4 stacks.

I've run WAR WAR PLD DRK
WAR WAR WAR WAR
DRK DRK DRK DRK
And PLD PLD PLD PLD
I've also run it as a full DPS RDM party and Melee party.

Didn't have any issues whatsoever. Phase 1 is cheeseable with tank, and that's mostly because of the fact that Tanks can survive with no heals and no esuna. You don't necessarily need a PLD for any phase, but it's an extra added bonus. WAR WAR WAR PLD is the better of the strategy, only because the PLD can Hollowed Ground the Bull before the second phase. PLD or WAR in Tank stance can take the brunt of it, while 1 up top mounted and the others in DPS stance tanking. You also do not need to grab any adds except the Coeurl on phase 1 since everything else, Rathalos can actually kill with them being attacked constantly. Staying to the left of Rath's leg for most of phase 1 of the fight is the key to the fight. Also, avoiding his un-telegraphed fireball that he occasionally that he does, is about the most you need to watch out for. Otherwise, if he's facing you, that's you're que to pay attention and move. I do not raid with endgame content, but Monster hunter being one of my absolute favorite series, have taken a hand full (even more since I had to do 50 runs for the mount), of players, and turned them into hunters with some luck and some navigation of move sets. I've actually spoiled tanks the most since they prefer the run with tanks now, as opposed to dps and healers. Now, I will admit that the normal strategy with healer + tank and 2 dps may seem like a lot, but it's really not. You just need to have the HP to survive most of the move sets. Your party should have HP about 43k to survive most hits. This is from being one shotted by rathalos, should you not move in time. I advise everyone be at least 355 or 360+ for the VIT HP pool though.

During phase two, you have two options:
1) Stack together
or
2) Take your lumps (tanks only of course).
***********
Option 1 - Stack mechanic
Because you have 4 people stacking at once, you can reduce the amount of damage altogether. The group just needs to move as a pack is all and not shy away. If even 1 person decides to shy, you can instantly cart. This is assuming you're doing the traditional Tank Heal DPS DPS. If you're 4 tanks though, the damage is negligible. You can't even see it. Just need to prepare heals for the third hit.

Option 2 - Tank only single stack. I'll explain this one since it's a little longer than normal:
WAR players - With WAR's high HP pool in Defiance + Thrill of battle, you can actually pop those + defense CD > take the first hit > potion and take the next two. This reduces the amount of times you need to consider healing or popping a potion in that phase. By the first hit with Defiance and thrill of battle on, you should drop to about 20-30k hp. Use a potion here. Second potion, don't use till both hits have come through. If you're using defense CD's, you can easily survive with 99k HP and more. Depending on what your gear composition is at the time. I've never had to use more than 2 pots. This includes the burning tick after heal, which drops me down to about 66k hp, where deliverance would be about when in the stance. Between 60-68k hp. People say defiance doesn't matter, but I've run multiple tests on it and even with no HP regen on your tank in phase 2, you still get the additional DEF from Defiance stance + thrill of battle HP with a full heal at 95-99k hp, and can take 2 hits as opposed to one.

PLD - If you're a PLD, using Sheltron + CD can reduce the amount of times necessary to use pots during the phase. If you have a DRK, the DRK is popping TBN on you, with you running sheltron, the damage isn't more than about 30% hp. This includes the burning tick. You should only need to use maybe 2 potions at most. 3 if you get below 40kHP + burn tick of 3-4 stacks.

DRK - If you have a DRK, you can pop TBN + CD and survive without using pots the same. Even better if your PLD uses intervention on the player with the marker, and DRK pops TBN on top of that. Same with PLD strategy though.
**********
I've run it on DPS and Tanks strategy, with little to no deaths. A number of times 3 carts can happen. It's a monster hunter thing. But the overall strategy behind the non telegraphed fight, for most monster hunter players, (to some of us who have fought Rathalos in the games), it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. The only issue I've had with the fight, is that the gear itself, should've been monster hunter related. But this gear, while still cool looking, is better than anything they've had in stormblood so far. So I can't complain too much. Overall, a good fight for many monster hunter players, and mount achievers, with having the Rathalos mount.

[Luna-M]

Rathalos is designed like he works (or close to) in Monster Hunter World. It's not a indication that the game or combat is going this direction. So OP, calm down.

On that note I think this is one of the most fun fights added to this game so far by a long shot.

[Duskane]

I thought it was fun, id like more interesting and unique extreme trials
"I've seen DPS get one-shot, while tanks eat chains of attacks."
this part made me chuckle like that's pretty much the entire purpose of a tank

Also why are you queuing for a extreme just go on PF like most people for extremes and savage

[RiyahArp]

Also why are you queuing for a extreme just go on PF like most people for extremes and savage

i want to practice the run, with a single lockout, not get locked into some party that wants to do it for hours on end. Raid finder is fine for that. All of the pF parties immediately want to go into farming if they clear it,and it often takes even longer just to get started. There also really isn't that many parties, at least on primal, oddly enough.

dunno, if it was really as bad as you make it out to be the go to 4 warriors party wouldn't be able to do it so easily would they, they have no healing or esuna afterall?...He's way easier than just about any other extreme trial btw...
probably even byakko

Look at the stack mechanic in the second phase. I have seen some dps who still try to stack with the tank when he gets it. The DPS takes 50% HP damage from one hit in a 2 stack; the warrior takes like 15%. its recommend the tank just eat the stack if he gets it, he can mitigate so much. The warriors can survive a stun long enough for poison to wear off, unless they also get kb'e din lava. You heal the warrior last in all phases except the add, and during that the 3x war just save fell cleave to burst him down.

And come on, byakko was nothing like this. I saw enrage first time, and people were saying hard mode might even be as difficult.

[CorbinDallas]

It's really not that bad, people just aren't using the tools available to them. Aside from healers, bards can remove dots, as can caster DPS through the use of Erase. Use them. Yes hey have long cooldowns, but it's better than the healer standing there on the third stack hard casting then immediately taking the poison claw 1 shot.

Have tanks solo the stack. Stay on Rath's left flank for the entirety of phase 1 and his tail on phase 2, it isn't hard. It just takes a little more brainpower than your average fight due to the randomness of target selection. All this fight does is hammer home how bad people are at adapting to new things, and instead of trying to overcome you cry "no more!"

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Meanwhile, on Reddit:



Multiple party comps have either omitted a tank, healer or done other random combinations. Regardless, you're acting like people should get all the mechanics when it's literally been out for two days. Welcome to content with some actual teeth. You can't just come in blind and steamroll it on your first attempt. Twelve forbid you may have to work for a kill.

All that aside, Rathalos is an entirely deceiving fight from what I've heard. You can avoid his attacks in the first phase by hovering around his left foot and keeping on his flanks or rear during phase two. It's going to take practice, just like Tsukiyomi and Shinryu did. They still went down even by casual players.