So, how is Pagos?

[Yzuna]

FFXI-inspired suggestions need to stop being taken seriously. Honestly, anyone who wants something from FFXI should be playing that game, not this one. Eureka is proof of this.

Disclaimer : I'll admit that I loved FFXI, more than any other MMORPG. But I don't think my opinion is biased in this.


The problem is not FFXI inspired content, the problem is the execution of it.

First they release Palace of The Dead, largely inspired by something called Nyzul Isle Investigation.
Nyzul Isle was a challenging content for a single party. And it could indeed be very challenging, due to it's random nature. But it also gave great reward and was a necessary part to get Mythic Weapon Skills (powerful new abilities) and Mythic Weapons (FFXIV relic x100).
It was limited (one entrance tag a day). And, most importantly, the requierements to get to the next floor were much more prominent. (Kill a boss, a specific monster, a monster family, activate lamps in different ways etc.)

So they turn a HL content that was difficult, rewarding and much more diversified, to a mindless bash of random ennemies with no subtleties at all and overall poor rewards.


And then Eureka. Eureka is nothing like any content in FFXI I know.
I honestly don't know what they were trying to emulate with this one...NM/HNM camping ? I'm pretty sure no one here was asking them to take that from FFXI. While it has it's pros, it was certainly one of the most daunting side of FFXI. And even so the incent for camping an NM for hours, even days, was incredibly superior to what we get in those fate. Thanks to the horizontal progression system, you could be getting an item that would last you forever, sometimes on multiple jobs. So while the experience was far from fun the reward was, for some people, well worth the grind.
So here again, the problem is not FFXI, but the way the handle things here, in FFXIV.


And let me tell you, FFXI had a lot of great features that could be transposed very nicely here. But they had to do it right, not just copy paste the concept without all it's flavor.

The best features that, I think, could do great in FFXIV if done right, are ZNM for open world content, and Sea/Sky for Eureka-like instanced content.
Both are challenging group/alliance content that are, in my opinion, far more interesting and rewarding (gameplay wise) than this FATE train crap.
But for this, and any other content, to work, they have to really think about what made those content fun and interesting.

[Kazrah]

The problem is they are using all the bad things from ffxi and completely ignoring all the things they got incredibly right.

The problem is not FFXI inspired content, the problem is the execution of it.

This to me is all the more reason why devs shouldn't use FFXI-inspired content. If they can't do it right, they really shouldn't do it at all.

[Remus]

I spent majority of my time during patch day doing Eureka and I reached level 24. Honestly, I personally think Anemos was better than Pagos. Pagos has a terrible levelling curve while also nerfing a lot of ways people tried to get EXP (It took me a whole day just to reach 24 and that was with monster grind and doing fates). They made NMs take forever to spawn but didn't change how much exp mobs give so the grind goes at a horrible pace. They do have the adaptation mechanic (enemy grows bigger and gives 4x extra exp) but this rarely ever happens so they might as well not have it.

Also for some reason they made almost every monster in there tanky as hell and hit like a truck so you can hardly solo anything compared to Anemos. When you were below the enemy by 1 level or the same level most early monsters you could kill and level with them but Pagos you can't really do that. People say bad things about the Fate train but that made the grind at least somewhat interesting compared to the now slow as hell chain mob which take 10 years to kill a single enemy for tiny exp. Also we get no new magicite (21/23 quests) in the early levels so we aren't getting a boost in damage/defense for the new area. We could perhaps get one at 25 but who knows.

The challenge log was a great addition to Eureka and I'm glad they created it because it made the early levels go by quickly and I think they should have more of these but perhaps in Leves form which gives lore and reasonable amount of exp to the whole group depending on how you do and they could perhaps have a impact on spawning NMs.

Overall, I just feel that they didn't take much of the feedback given and just created a zone and made sure people couldn't do the NM train and didn't consider trying to change the other areas of Eureka to make it somewhat interesting and reasonable when it came to levelling. There could be something different down the line for exp but so far it doesn't feel very different when it comes to levelling up. Also, wouldn't surprise me they purposely didn't change the exp after nerfing NM train just so the content lasts until 4.4.

Edit: Extra note the combat in this game isn't made for this type of content. Honestly after going through the grind from tanking my hands were hurting a bit and I actually decided to afk in the train to have a break from it. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to have enemies with such high hp and needing to kill multiple of them (200+ if you want to level only using the chain bonus way which is just stupid with how slow it is).

[MomomiMomi]

This to me is all the more reason why devs shouldn't use FFXI-inspired content. If they can't do it right, they really shouldn't do it at all.

But you had said that the suggestions should not be taken seriously. The problem is that they aren't listening to the suggestions. If they were, they would have gotten it right.

[Justuas]

What's the ultimate reason to grind Eureka exactly? To obtain gear which will become obsolete in few months? Or is it just glamour? I wouldn't bother if that's the case.

[Remus]

What's the ultimate reason to grind Eureka exactly? To obtain gear which will become obsolete in few months? Or is it just glamour? I wouldn't bother if that's the case.

At this current moment it will be glamour. The relic will only last at best a month and a bit... that's it (4.4 will bring the ilvl boost and releases in mid September).

[Jxnibbles]

Does anyone on the Dev team actually test this stuff out?

How can they not see the flaw in this design, Yes! let our players press buttons for hours upon hours for maybe a level or two. Like seriously they need to hire a doctor just to tell them your players may get Carpal Tunnel.

How is this content even green lit?

Anyway the reward is trash when you have much better options for time invested and a patch around the corner. Carpal Tunnel is a great reward...

[Zojha]

Does anyone on the Dev team actually test this stuff out?

Yeah, well... about that...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...de_for_eureka/

Also more than we anticipated, players have enjoyed the content of Eureka itself than the rewards of item upgrades, so we have decided to allocate more resources to making the content better than the rewards itself.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._yoships_walk/

Yoshi-p said a lot of the dev members leave the company as soon as their work is done, so they can go home and play Eureka.

They seem to have a, uh... somewhat different opinion on the content.

I personally am kinda glad Pagos seems to be more or less more of the same, as I could never force myself to finish Anemos. It doesn't seem like I'm missing out.

[Jxnibbles]

Snip.

I wonder how much of that is actually true, when you can easily lose out on a paycheck if you talk negatively about something the company you work for has released.

As for testing are we sure they are? I am pretty sure a program does all the testing if not you would think they would have hand issues but who knows.

[MomomiMomi]

Yeah, well... about that...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...de_for_eureka/

I... I'm getting out of here before I get myself banned from these forums. I just can't post my reaction to reading that here.