So, how is Pagos?

[Yzuna]

FFXI-inspired suggestions need to stop being taken seriously. Honestly, anyone who wants something from FFXI should be playing that game, not this one. Eureka is proof of this.

Disclaimer : I'll admit that I loved FFXI, more than any other MMORPG. But I don't think my opinion is biased in this.


The problem is not FFXI inspired content, the problem is the execution of it.

First they release Palace of The Dead, largely inspired by something called Nyzul Isle Investigation.
Nyzul Isle was a challenging content for a single party. And it could indeed be very challenging, due to it's random nature. But it also gave great reward and was a necessary part to get Mythic Weapon Skills (powerful new abilities) and Mythic Weapons (FFXIV relic x100).
It was limited (one entrance tag a day). And, most importantly, the requierements to get to the next floor were much more prominent. (Kill a boss, a specific monster, a monster family, activate lamps in different ways etc.)

So they turn a HL content that was difficult, rewarding and much more diversified, to a mindless bash of random ennemies with no subtleties at all and overall poor rewards.


And then Eureka. Eureka is nothing like any content in FFXI I know.
I honestly don't know what they were trying to emulate with this one...NM/HNM camping ? I'm pretty sure no one here was asking them to take that from FFXI. While it has it's pros, it was certainly one of the most daunting side of FFXI. And even so the incent for camping an NM for hours, even days, was incredibly superior to what we get in those fate. Thanks to the horizontal progression system, you could be getting an item that would last you forever, sometimes on multiple jobs. So while the experience was far from fun the reward was, for some people, well worth the grind.
So here again, the problem is not FFXI, but the way the handle things here, in FFXIV.


And let me tell you, FFXI had a lot of great features that could be transposed very nicely here. But they had to do it right, not just copy paste the concept without all it's flavor.

The best features that, I think, could do great in FFXIV if done right, are ZNM for open world content, and Sea/Sky for Eureka-like instanced content.
Both are challenging group/alliance content that are, in my opinion, far more interesting and rewarding (gameplay wise) than this FATE train crap.
But for this, and any other content, to work, they have to really think about what made those content fun and interesting.

[Kazrah]

The problem is they are using all the bad things from ffxi and completely ignoring all the things they got incredibly right.

The problem is not FFXI inspired content, the problem is the execution of it.

This to me is all the more reason why devs shouldn't use FFXI-inspired content. If they can't do it right, they really shouldn't do it at all.

[MomomiMomi]

This to me is all the more reason why devs shouldn't use FFXI-inspired content. If they can't do it right, they really shouldn't do it at all.

But you had said that the suggestions should not be taken seriously. The problem is that they aren't listening to the suggestions. If they were, they would have gotten it right.

[Kazrah]

But you had said that the suggestions should not be taken seriously. The problem is that they aren't listening to the suggestions. If they were, they would have gotten it right.

They do listen to suggestions from the forums, but there are two problems. One is the lesson learned from Cataclysm in that players will always know less about a game than devs will. The other is that what suggestions they do get, they only get the ideas for them on a surface level and then try to reshape it from XI to XIV, and it never seems to end well unless there's some better source of inspiration.

....except now, looking at Eureka, I'm more hard-pressed to find myself believing that devs for this game know more than the players now.

[MomomiMomi]

They do listen to suggestions from the forums, but there are two problems. One is the lesson learned from Cataclysm in that players will always know less about a game than devs will. The other is that what suggestions they do get, they only get the ideas for them on a surface level and then try to reshape it from XI to XIV, and it never seems to end well unless there's some better source of inspiration.

....except now, looking at Eureka, I'm more hard-pressed to find myself believing that devs for this game know more than the players now.

I'll use an extremely basic suggestion that I've seen countless times and we still don't have. ZNM. VwNM. Empyrean Weapon NMs. Whatever you want to call it, in short: poppable NMs. There's really no excuse for not being able to translate this into any game. And yet we don't have anything like it. Instead, they've done nothing but double down on this game's version of NMs, The Hunt, which is nothing more than a zerg, and suffers from complaints from both sides of the spectrum of content-doers: small groups and large groups.

Poppable NMs allows for content to be done with a large group, but not too large, or even as small as you want, without the need of creating an instance for it, and without interference from other players. You could even have a system in which you have to track down, i.e., actually hunt the beast. It allows for the NMs to have interesting mechanics. It solves pretty much all of the issues that The Hunt has. And yet here we are, 4 years later, and nothing.

No, I dare say, they are not listening to suggestions.