So, how is Pagos?

[MicahZerrshia]

Logged in. Did my challenge log, joined a mob grind pt and left after 30 minutes because no...just no, joined a new instance, spawned 1 nm in and hr. And for the first time since 2010 really started to consider unsubbing.

I have tried and tried but there are so many superior experiences out there from ESO to WoW to GW2, not to mention all the astounding single player games and promising mmos in development. Really I think they are just surviving on name recognition, fanboys and cheap thrills at this point.

[Kazrah]

Two big takeaways from it:

1) Devs have either run out of ways to make reasonable content for relic grinds or it was already too late to make this Eureka content more reasonable. It's understandable to have somewhat of a grind, but this is making me glad that the next World of Warcraft expansion is right around the corner.

2) FFXI-inspired suggestions need to stop being taken seriously. Honestly, anyone who wants something from FFXI should be playing that game, not this one. Eureka is proof of this.

[MicahZerrshia]

FFXI-inspired suggestions need to stop being taken seriously. Honestly, anyone who wants something from FFXI should be playing that game, not this one. Eureka is proof of this.

The problem is they are using all the bad things from ffxi and completely ignoring all the things they got incredibly right. I think any ffxi player, myself included, will tell you that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The problem is they are using all the bad things from ffxi and completely ignoring all the things they got incredibly right. I think any ffxi player, myself included, will tell you that.

To be fair, even some of the good ideas won't necessarily translate well after fifteen years. Granted, Eureka could be good with they actually bothered to innovate a little. I mean, honestly? Copy/paste Anemos except make everything take longer? But oh boy! Bunnies that give us materia! It isn't like battle materia stopped mattering a year ago...

[MicahZerrshia]

To be fair, even some of the good ideas won't necessarily translate well after fifteen years. Granted, Eureka could be good with they actually bothered to innovate a little. I mean, honestly? Copy/paste Anemos except make everything take longer? But oh boy! Bunnies that give us materia! It isn't like battle materia stopped mattering a year ago...

Yeah but by what was good I meant it in more abstract than the a b c. The good stuff from xi they ignore are things like diverse content that stays relevant not the boring mob grinds that xi was notorious for. I don't think diverse, long lasting content is something that wouldn't translate after 15 years.

[Cylla]

The problem is they are using all the bad things from ffxi and completely ignoring all the things they got incredibly right. I think any ffxi player, myself included, will tell you that.

I don't know about that. I played XI for 14, nearly 15 years and I can tell you 100% that I enjoyed XI grind. XI was the only MMO I stuck with for so long because I enjoy nearly everything it had to offer. Everyone different, and I'm sure a lot of people even then didn't enjoy the grind but compared to pagos... this grind is 100% not enjoyable at all.

---

My own personal opinion of pagos, it just disappointing. It took something I loved and enjoyed from my younger years and turned it into one big snooze fest (I speak of XI of course). Anemos, fine, I was ok with it, but I'd loved to see something fresh and new. Not a copy and paste of Anemos on a new map. I'd prolly been ok with it if we could've still had our mounts walking in, but nope. Same quest, same path, same boring grind and seriously, what is up with them bunnies because I did two of those fates and didn't get a bunny following me? After the second one I joined and didn't get a bunny, I just left the instance. Bad enough I was falling asleep.

As for people AFKing, I kind of don't blame them. For most of the time I was in there trying to help spawn a NM, kill, after mindless kill, I was just getting way beyond board and my attention started to catch on to other things that were more worth wild doing then the mindless killing of mobs just to spawn a NM. Whole time I was in there, a whole two FATES. That it! Not going to speak for others, but me personally, this isn't something that going to keep my attention. Not with the spawn rate being like this. Not sure what they did but it just, nope. Not having any fun with it what so ever.

[ManuelBravo]

Personally I love it. If you are level 20 and you do challenge log you can get to 22 which should be your first step anyways. Duo really work well for easy chains and decent XP, a healer and a decent DPS makes this very easy. Takes a bit of time however doing 115xp-135xp per kill in a party of 8, compare to 500-800xp at almost same rate vs a party is not bad in duo. Same as first one. you can go up to 5 levels than start joining trains. It's kind of pointless to do train if your lower, you 30k in xp , no chest or crystals -.- until your level is 22-24 for higher fates. Most mobs are supper blind anyways and their agro range is small. Sure you can get one shot, if you have really no sense of sneaking. Uncovered 75% of themap with only one death solo so it's really a bit of a joke. What I did notice is that people are like lemmings, why would you jump of a cliff when you can walk a few steps to the sides at a lower height rather than to be like lemmings and die when you hit the floor? -.-; yeah after seeing this it's no wonder most people hate it. It's a nice challenge. As for the rabbits well, they may not give xp however they are very useful later on. I don't want to spoil it all I can say makes sense later on.

[WizzNL]

Personally I love it. If you are level 20 and you do challenge log you can get to 22 which should be your first step anyways. Duo really work well for easy chains and decent XP, a healer and a decent DPS makes this very easy. Takes a bit of time however doing 115xp-135xp per kill in a party of 8, compare to 500-800xp at almost same rate vs a party is not bad in duo. Same as first one. you can go up to 5 levels than start joining trains. It's kind of pointless to do train if your lower, you 30k in xp , no chest or crystals -.- until your level is 22-24 for higher fates. Most mobs are supper blind anyways and their agro range is small. Sure you can get one shot, if you have really no sense of sneaking. Uncovered 75% of themap with only one death solo so it's really a bit of a joke. What I did notice is that people are like lemmings, why would you jump of a cliff when you can walk a few steps to the sides at a lower height rather than to be like lemmings and die when you hit the floor? -.-; yeah after seeing this it's no wonder most people hate it. It's a nice challenge. As for the rabbits well, they may not give xp however they are very useful later on. I don't want to spoil it all I can say makes sense later on.

We were doing lv27 mobs as a 8 man group ( all lv22 ) and got 2-3k each kill, up to 6-7k on 10-20-30 chain. So a full group also works well, just need to kill stuff 5 levels above you. Those Valkurm Dunes flashbacks though :P

[Shurrikhan]

The problem is they are using all the bad things from ffxi and completely ignoring all the things they got incredibly right. I think any ffxi player, myself included, will tell you that.

This. I'm no huge fan of XI, but any hat-tip XIV makes to XI in its gameplay is generally alike to handing someone an exposed high-speed fan when they mention that maybe planes fly well and maybe turbines play a part in that. Yes, just the fan, somehow uncontainable, and ready to eat fingers. No wings, no fuselage.

It reminds me of the WoW developer comment that "Class armor tier set effects are inherently dull, so we've scrapped them," despite that they had only just stooped to dull set effects with that very expansion. "Poisoning the chalice" so to speak.

Give someone the worst of something they've asked for and maybe they'll stop asking for it, or anything for that matter... Fair enough, but it won't be due to a mistrust of the spirit of the original -- only the borrower's ability in implementation.

[Yzuna]

FFXI-inspired suggestions need to stop being taken seriously. Honestly, anyone who wants something from FFXI should be playing that game, not this one. Eureka is proof of this.

Disclaimer : I'll admit that I loved FFXI, more than any other MMORPG. But I don't think my opinion is biased in this.


The problem is not FFXI inspired content, the problem is the execution of it.

First they release Palace of The Dead, largely inspired by something called Nyzul Isle Investigation.
Nyzul Isle was a challenging content for a single party. And it could indeed be very challenging, due to it's random nature. But it also gave great reward and was a necessary part to get Mythic Weapon Skills (powerful new abilities) and Mythic Weapons (FFXIV relic x100).
It was limited (one entrance tag a day). And, most importantly, the requierements to get to the next floor were much more prominent. (Kill a boss, a specific monster, a monster family, activate lamps in different ways etc.)

So they turn a HL content that was difficult, rewarding and much more diversified, to a mindless bash of random ennemies with no subtleties at all and overall poor rewards.


And then Eureka. Eureka is nothing like any content in FFXI I know.
I honestly don't know what they were trying to emulate with this one...NM/HNM camping ? I'm pretty sure no one here was asking them to take that from FFXI. While it has it's pros, it was certainly one of the most daunting side of FFXI. And even so the incent for camping an NM for hours, even days, was incredibly superior to what we get in those fate. Thanks to the horizontal progression system, you could be getting an item that would last you forever, sometimes on multiple jobs. So while the experience was far from fun the reward was, for some people, well worth the grind.
So here again, the problem is not FFXI, but the way the handle things here, in FFXIV.


And let me tell you, FFXI had a lot of great features that could be transposed very nicely here. But they had to do it right, not just copy paste the concept without all it's flavor.

The best features that, I think, could do great in FFXIV if done right, are ZNM for open world content, and Sea/Sky for Eureka-like instanced content.
Both are challenging group/alliance content that are, in my opinion, far more interesting and rewarding (gameplay wise) than this FATE train crap.
But for this, and any other content, to work, they have to really think about what made those content fun and interesting.