4.4: Role Action slots increased to 10. Thoughts?

[HyoMinPark]

As a BRD I don't have Peloton or Tactician because I use Palisade on the Tank, Refresh on Healers, Diversion, Head Graze (because my ex-bf PLD can't be trusted to Silence Ultros) and something else I may have forgotten off the top of my head.

Uh... BRD/MCH can't take Diversion. Physical ranged role skills are Refresh, Tactician, Second Wind, Invigorate, Palisade, Peloton, Head Graze, Arm Graze, Leg Graze, and Foot Graze.

If you need Head Graze (it's only needed for V7S), sub out Invigorate. Tactician is basically your only form of instant aggro management. Refresh should be paired with Foe's in the opener, and then used on cooldown after that. If your healers are managing their Lucid timings, they shouldn't run into MP issues outside of mass Raisings.

Palisade is great to have, but it's worth noting it only works on physical damage (so Arm & Hammer and Ultimate Embrace are the busters you should use it for this tier; not counting stuff you use it for in UwU).

That being said, with the increase, physical ranged won’t have any need for all 10. I plan to just add in Head Graze for that 1 mechanic they’ll inevitably have us use a CC skill for, and that’s probably it. Peloton lost its appeal to me when they made it require a refresh every 30 seconds instead of remaining persistent like the old Swiftsong was, but I guess I’ll add it. Don’t really see myself using it all that much though. The other three have no use in end-game, since most bosses are immune to stuns, binds, and heavy.

[kikix12]

Something like that. Free up the fifth slot, or make a sixth. Ten is overdoing it and throwing the system out of the window.

Seeing as the system shouldn't ever have even been made, I'd say that's a good thing.

This is a band aid for when they will be able to do larger changes. I certainly hope that those "larger changes" will not involve just changing the crappy skills for good ones so that there will be actual competition for what to pick. The system itself should be scrapped and fundamental skills should be part of class growth.

Even now you come across people that have no idea that there is such a thing as role skills (ignorance is a bliss...until you come across someone with a short temper that'll notice it, that is). Healers without Protect, without Esuna in Esuna-mandatory dungeons, tanks without Rampart...Casters of all sorts without Lucid Dreaming. And why?! Eh...for no reason, really. There is zero harm in healers having a copy-paste skill with a different icon and name for Esuna (especially since those actually exist) or Protect (with the same name and icon of course).

So let me get this straight right, before the change each healer had their own unique cleanse ability yeah? That's one hotbar slot per healer? Ok, so they merge all 3 into esuna, 3 buttons into 1. So each healer still uses one hotbar slot. There's a net change of 0.

Well, that takes away from class esthetics. Which are already scarce.

Then there's also the fact that the class/job skills are auto-added to your hotbar when you unlock them, but the role skills are not. And there are people that manage to miss the existence of role skills altogether.

[Iscah]

Because a lot of those abilities were gutted from jobs and put into the Role Actions in the name of "removing button bloat". This basically reverses that stance without giving the actions back to their original classes.

The difference would be that if they remain relocated to the "role action" category, you don't have to level the specific classes to obtain them.

[odintius]

I find the system dumb and unnecessary they just need to go the extra mile and remove it. I would give the jobs different animations and names for those abilities that performs same functions and some are just not needed imo. /Shrugs

[CorbinDallas]

Then there's also the fact that the class/job skills are auto-added to your hotbar when you unlock them, but the role skills are not. And there are people that manage to miss the existence of role skills altogether.

That's more of a "The problem is between the chair and the computer" thing, than an inherent problem with role skills though.

[HyoMinPark]

Because a lot of those abilities were gutted from jobs and put into the Role Actions in the name of "removing button bloat". This basically reverses that stance without giving the actions back to their original classes.

Some of the role skills are more or less useless in battle content, though. So you still won’t be carrying all 10 regardless; at most you’ll have 1 or 2 more, which you should have already allocated hotbar space for anyways when switching them out (e.g., I don’t always carry Head Graze or Surecast, but they still have spots on my hotbars for when I do slot them in). And, as Iscah said, it still removes the requirement of having to level THM to 26 for Swiftcast or GLA to 22 for Provoke—both of which were a problem in HW. My experiences are innumerable when it comes to the DRKs that didn’t have Provoke, or the healers that didn’t have Swiftcast in level 60 content.

[kikix12]

That's more of a "The problem is between the chair and the computer" thing, than an inherent problem with role skills though.

No. It's an inherent problem of the role skills system.

Since it is both a separate AND a customizable system, there is just no reasonable way to make the skills pop up on your hot bar as they are gained. You could have their icon, grayed out, appearing, but that'll result in TONS of threads and bug reports about "How do I use this skill?" or "This skill doesn't work! Fix it!" before anyone would even try to do anything on their own. You could say that a pop-up would open when they are gotten informing about the role skills...but it already does. Ignorant people just close them without reading, hence why they manage to reach high levels without knowing the fundamental things. Not only role skills, but also others that are class-related. And it's more work that it's worth, too, seeing as copy-pasting the skill into each classes skill tree is easier than making something new, even if it's a new pop-up.

It's simple. If it's mandatory for the class to be "complete" and effective in all content, it should be part of the class kit from the get-go. Making it different is like calling for a taxi...driver not included.

[Deceptus]

And, as Iscah said, it still removes the requirement of having to level THM to 26 for Swiftcast or GLA to 22 for Provoke—both of which were a problem in HW. My experiences are innumerable when it comes to the DRKs that didn’t have Provoke, or the healers that didn’t have Swiftcast in level 60 content.

Mandatory actions such as Provoke should never have been cross role actions. They should have been native to the base class kit.

[HyoMinPark]

Mandatory actions such as Provoke should never have been cross role actions. They should have been native to the base class kit.

And giving them to their base job (can’t just do base class since some don’t have classes, and the developers are doing all they can to phase out the class system anyways) wouldn’t solve the button bloat complaint that you brought up in the OP. So tanks all now innately know Provoke and Rampart instead of them being role skills—it’s still using up the same amount of hotbar space.

Then there's also the fact that the class/job skills are auto-added to your hotbar when you unlock them, but the role skills are not. And there are people that manage to miss the existence of role skills altogether.

When you’re leveling up a class/job in a role, there is a pop up that appears saying “You learn the Role Skill xxxxx!” They may not automatically appear on your hotbar, but the game still tells you that you learned them. People “miss” them for the same reason they “miss” what the very skills already listed on their hotbar do, or “miss” the message that says “you can now accept a new class/job quest”: from not paying attention. You can hold people’s hands all they want, and they’ll still miss things.

[kikix12]

When you’re leveling up a class/job in a role, there is a pop up that appears saying “You learn the Role Skill xxxxx!” They may not automatically appear on your hotbar, but the game still tells you that you learned them.

I know that. And I kept saying that people miss it by ignorance and what not.

However, even when I long since knew about the role skills and what not, I came across the pop-up appearing when I was leveling another class while for whatever reason I didn't pay enough attention to it. I don't know, I think it was in the middle of combat? Possibly. It was a skill whose icon I was not familiar with (some of the trash skills I never even use). Afterwards I was wondering where it was, since I wanted to check what exactly it did.
Since I knew about the role skills by then, it finally shone on me that it was that (well, I just opened the skill menu and looked at the tabs, so yeah...). But it shows that people can sometimes honestly miss such things.

Sure, that happening every time one of several skills is learned is a bit much...but hey.


What I'm saying here is that there is simply no reason not to do that. If players are too ignorant/lazy/otherwise restricted to learn how to use the tools they have?! Sure. The game shouldn't accommodate for that by becoming brain-dead one-button masher. But if it is at no cost to gameplay, giving unnecessary extra hoops is just irritating. Even as a more experiences player, it irks me that if I level a new class I'll have to go those extra steps to add and never remove some of those skills. Not because it's too much to do or it takes too much time. But...why?! Rampart will be on every tank, in every content, in every case 100% of the time. It's just stupid, excessive, pointless. If it had any sensible reason behind its existence...fine. But there is none. It just have negatives from players perspectives, and saves virtually nothing to the developers. Because no matter how terrible the code is, there is absolutely no way I would believe it's not just a matter of copy-paste or adding an extra flag, depending on how they decided to make it.