Selling Ultimate Weapon Ultima Is Apparently Not Against the ToS

[HyoMinPark]

You're missing the point. By excluding people from the conversation, what does that accomplish? The selling of content has nothing to do with whether someone else can clear it. How is that a requirement to have an opinion on it? If you want to be exclusionary in regards to who is allowed to have an opinion on something, then you should accept when you yourself don't meet the standard someone else has set for the conversation. My "petty shots" were simply me applying my own standard to the conversation, which both of you did. If you find it petty, then so be it.

I'm trying not to exclude anyone from talking about this. You two are doing the exact opposite. Anyone can discuss. Saying, "you shouldn't even be allowed to talk about this" is absolutely hilarious when said on a public forum.

It is petty when you make things personal. Such as your comment about someone being carried because they have greys. That is personal, and it is a petty comment that was completely unnecessary to the conversation. If you have to resort to personal attacks to try and make a point, it's likely you don't have a point to begin with. Make the point without slinging mud; then maybe you have a good argument.

But Lady Park, are the sellers not only selling ultimates, but also selling God Clears as well? Just so they can also sell the ultimate clear?

All types of high-end content are sold, and so long as there are buyers there will be sellers. I've already stated I disagree with the practices, but there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop it. SE's own policy regarding "acceptable evidence" puts a full stop to any report regarding the PFs, and unless they lighten it, things will continue as they are. Rather than get worked up over fighting a losing battle, I just don't concern myself with it and focus on playing the game. You can't change the way people behave.

If people want to throw their money at virtual content clears, well, that's their decision. I don't agree with it, but it's not like I can control them. So I just concern myself with my own thing. The OP is more than welcome to her opinions and moral objections to the matter, as is anyone else; my issue with her points is she's resorting to pettiness and personal shots to make them (i.e., "Cleared? Carried is more like it.").

[Tiaque]

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True, sadly nothing can be done for it. I know most who plays mmos do not wish to bring the real world into it but where their is a chance for greed, no matter how unfair it is, their will be those who will take advantage of it. Even worse is when they try to justify it.

If SE wishes to punish these players, they would need to assign a few GMs to watch for this activity and IP Track, but even then their are many ways to trick the GMs on this. The advertiser for the runs could utilize a VPN along with a dummy account on it, the user can also avoid scrutiny by utilizing Jump potions to take that account and character to 60, then spend at least a day to take it to 70.

The GMs would then have to utilize a search thru all logs for anyone who gets a Clear, and monitor them for sudden IP changes or any lack of communication with the party they got the clear with. That would take far too much time and man hours for the GMs to do, which they already have Gil selling/making RMTs to deal with as is. It would also be circumstantial as evidence.

Thus in the end, nothing can really be done. They could enforce something like being required to clear O1 to O4S with the same exact group, and then you must have that exact matched group to do Bahamut, then the same for O5 to O8S for Ultimate. It will alleviate much of the problem, but it will only stop most, the big whales will just simply pay the sellers for the entirety of the Runs they need then.

Greed always finds a way. That is the world we live in.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

Actually they wouldn't need to work that hard.
They just need a few names....and start accepting screenshots from sources that are acceptable. With collaborating evidence.
If Microsoft can do it... PSN can do it..why not them?

For some reason they won't.
I already know the answer to that question (At least the most plausible one)....and that answer would spark a major argument/discussion of a different matter...I'd rather avoid that.
*Feel free to ping me in-game or discord if you want to chat about it :P*

But yes..greed tends to rule the day in the end.

[Tiaque]

Actually they wouldn't need to work that hard.
They just need a few names....and start accepting screenshots from sources that are acceptable. With collaborating evidence.
If Microsoft can do it... PSN can do it..why not them?

For some reason they won't.
I already know the answer to that question (At least the most plausible one)....and that answer would spark a major argument/discussion of a different matter...I'd rather avoid that.
*Feel free to ping me in-game or discord if you want to chat about it :P*

But yes..greed tends to rule the day in the end.

And where would these screenshots come from? The buyers themselves? A jilted team member of the static who did not get his share of the cut? A Jealous FC member? A special investigative GM who stalks a advertiser but likely lead to a dead end due to that advertiser being on a dummy account?

Their are just so many loop holes. In the end though yes, something can be done about all this, but gotta look at it from a Suits perspective. Would it make them more money in the end to justify the cost of man hours and personnel to dedicate to something small like this?

In the end, its all about the Moola.

[Jijifli]

If SE wishes to punish these players, they would need to assign a few GMs to watch for this activity and IP Track, but even then their are many ways to trick the GMs on this. The advertiser for the runs could utilize a VPN along with a dummy account on it, the user can also avoid scrutiny by utilizing Jump potions to take that account and character to 60, then spend at least a day to take it to 70.

They already use dummy characters. I've been seeing adverts from characters that names have references to the content (Which I won't list, can't name and shame) instead of using their mains. So if they make a mistake they aren't dead on their mains. XD

[Rubiss]

snip

If you're issue is with how I made my points then you're being completely unproductive. I've already explained why I made my point the way I did. You could just as easily say it was personal when he implied someone else could speak about content because they hadn't unlocked it.

You, however, haven't addressed why you think it's okay to bare the vast majority of players on commenting about RMT.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I actually don't care about content selling. What I DO care about is when sellers use DF labels to make their ad spam go to the top of the list. Also, those screens aren't name shaming since obviously they aren't doing anything worth policing. :/

[HyoMinPark]

If you're issue is with how I made my points then you're being completely unproductive. I've already explained why I made my point the way I did. You could just as easily say it was personal when he implied someone else could speak about content because they hadn't unlocked it.

You, however, haven't addressed why you think it's okay to bare the vast majority of players on commenting about RMT.

I already addressed my thoughts on this matter: I cannot control what others do with their money, so I don't concern myself with it, and I don't really understand why others do. I disagree with the practice, but I also recognize that fighting against it is more or less a losing battle, due to a combination of SE's system and the fact that you cannot control what other people do. I stated as much in my last post, so I would suggest you go back and read it in full.

[Rubiss]

Because I do agree with him--if people aren't even clearing God, why are they concerning themselves with Ultimate sales?

You've yet to explain this and are continuing to dodge the question. Why does someone have to have cleared content to discuss RMT practices, violations of terms of service and the morals behind buying and selling content clears?

[HyoMinPark]

You've yet to explain this and are continuing to dodge the question. Why does someone have to have cleared content to discuss RMT practices, violations of terms of service and the morals behind buying and selling content clears?

You conveniently omitted my follow-up question that was meant to go along with that question:

Because I do agree with him--if people aren't even clearing God, why are they concerning themselves with Ultimate sales? Why is anyone getting up in arms about people doing whatever with their money?

That is my point: why are people getting so concerned with what others do? I don't understand the fascination people these days seem to have with what other people do. And I don't really understand why some people I see discussing this topic--people that do not even raid/participate in the content, or even care about it--suddenly start caring when content sales are involved. Is this really about it being a ToS violation only?

Moral objections are fine; I have objections about things, but there's no point in voicing them when they fall on deaf ears. I just don't understand why people feel the need to start crusades over something like this when it's very clear nothing will be done about it. Just like nothing is ever done about the other ToS violations. So I drop it and don't concern myself with it.