Selling Ultimate Weapon Ultima Is Apparently Not Against the ToS

[Rubiss]

Your standard is all good and dandy but it is irrelevant in this matter. The system says I qualify for Ultimate and actually am participating in said content so obviously I have a right to my opinion on this matter. Players who do not even have access to it should keep their mouths shut and focus on actually getting there. Also obviously as far as selling goes, my stance remains, just mad because you can't sell it yourself. You're actually upset people make a good chunk of change out of selling clears because they are good enough for it.

Your stance is still contradictory because I could just as easily relent on Ultimate and say I'm upset about the selling of O8S, which I am more than capable of carrying people through. Also claiming I am "mad" because I can't sell it doesn't address anything I've said on the morals of selling for real money, how it breaks the ToS and how it is blatantly advertised. All you've said is "you're mad you can't sell it" which doesn't actually... do anything. Like even if I was mad, I mean, okay? And this somehow diminishes the point I've made how?

If your going to say...say it...don't play games....and don't accuse people of not reading when you don't even say what you where saying in the first place.

I did say it, a few posts earlier. If you followed the comment chain between me and this individual it would be clear. Sorry you didn't, but that's not exactly my problem.

I can read just fine. Thank you for your concern. All I see is you being petty and taking personal shots because his opinion on the matter differs from yours. Because I do agree with him--if people aren't even clearing God, why are they concerning themselves with Ultimate sales? Why is anyone getting up in arms about people doing whatever with their money? If you're morally against it, that's fine. I don't agree with the practice of buying and selling either. But I've also stopped concerning myself with what strangers on the Internet do with their money. Not like I could stop them anyways.

If you were trying to make a point, do so without the petty ad hominem next time.

You're missing the point. By excluding people from the conversation, what does that accomplish? The selling of content has nothing to do with whether someone else can clear it. How is that a requirement to have an opinion on it? If you want to be exclusionary in regards to who is allowed to have an opinion on something, then you should accept when you yourself don't meet the standard someone else has set for the conversation. My "petty shots" were simply me applying my own standard to the conversation, which both of you did. If you find it petty, then so be it.

I'm trying not to exclude anyone from talking about this. You two are doing the exact opposite. Anyone can discuss. Saying, "you shouldn't even be allowed to talk about this" is absolutely hilarious when said on a public forum.

[Jijifli]

Your stance is still contradictory because I could just as easily relent on Ultimate and say I'm upset about the selling of O8S, which I am more than capable of carrying people through. Also claiming I am "mad" because I can't sell it doesn't address anything I've said on the morals of selling for real money, how it breaks the ToS and how it is blatantly advertised. All you've said is "you're mad you can't sell it" which doesn't actually... do anything. Like even if I was mad, I mean, okay? And this somehow diminishes the point I've made how?

Adding onto this, BECAUSE people sell the clears, we can't say only people who are on progression or have the weapon can comment on that. Because people could just as easily buy their way in if they have a big enough wallet, and then argue it's fine because they got the clear themself, pretending they didn't just spend over a grand on it.

Are there lots of people like that? No. Are there? Yep. And not actually joking on this like I was poking before on another post, I bet there is one here right now.

[HyoMinPark]

You're missing the point. By excluding people from the conversation, what does that accomplish? The selling of content has nothing to do with whether someone else can clear it. How is that a requirement to have an opinion on it? If you want to be exclusionary in regards to who is allowed to have an opinion on something, then you should accept when you yourself don't meet the standard someone else has set for the conversation. My "petty shots" were simply me applying my own standard to the conversation, which both of you did. If you find it petty, then so be it.

I'm trying not to exclude anyone from talking about this. You two are doing the exact opposite. Anyone can discuss. Saying, "you shouldn't even be allowed to talk about this" is absolutely hilarious when said on a public forum.

It is petty when you make things personal. Such as your comment about someone being carried because they have greys. That is personal, and it is a petty comment that was completely unnecessary to the conversation. If you have to resort to personal attacks to try and make a point, it's likely you don't have a point to begin with. Make the point without slinging mud; then maybe you have a good argument.

But Lady Park, are the sellers not only selling ultimates, but also selling God Clears as well? Just so they can also sell the ultimate clear?

All types of high-end content are sold, and so long as there are buyers there will be sellers. I've already stated I disagree with the practices, but there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop it. SE's own policy regarding "acceptable evidence" puts a full stop to any report regarding the PFs, and unless they lighten it, things will continue as they are. Rather than get worked up over fighting a losing battle, I just don't concern myself with it and focus on playing the game. You can't change the way people behave.

If people want to throw their money at virtual content clears, well, that's their decision. I don't agree with it, but it's not like I can control them. So I just concern myself with my own thing. The OP is more than welcome to her opinions and moral objections to the matter, as is anyone else; my issue with her points is she's resorting to pettiness and personal shots to make them (i.e., "Cleared? Carried is more like it.").

[Rubiss]

snip

If you're issue is with how I made my points then you're being completely unproductive. I've already explained why I made my point the way I did. You could just as easily say it was personal when he implied someone else could speak about content because they hadn't unlocked it.

You, however, haven't addressed why you think it's okay to bare the vast majority of players on commenting about RMT.

[HyoMinPark]

If you're issue is with how I made my points then you're being completely unproductive. I've already explained why I made my point the way I did. You could just as easily say it was personal when he implied someone else could speak about content because they hadn't unlocked it.

You, however, haven't addressed why you think it's okay to bare the vast majority of players on commenting about RMT.

I already addressed my thoughts on this matter: I cannot control what others do with their money, so I don't concern myself with it, and I don't really understand why others do. I disagree with the practice, but I also recognize that fighting against it is more or less a losing battle, due to a combination of SE's system and the fact that you cannot control what other people do. I stated as much in my last post, so I would suggest you go back and read it in full.

[Rubiss]

Because I do agree with him--if people aren't even clearing God, why are they concerning themselves with Ultimate sales?

You've yet to explain this and are continuing to dodge the question. Why does someone have to have cleared content to discuss RMT practices, violations of terms of service and the morals behind buying and selling content clears?

[HyoMinPark]

You've yet to explain this and are continuing to dodge the question. Why does someone have to have cleared content to discuss RMT practices, violations of terms of service and the morals behind buying and selling content clears?

You conveniently omitted my follow-up question that was meant to go along with that question:

Because I do agree with him--if people aren't even clearing God, why are they concerning themselves with Ultimate sales? Why is anyone getting up in arms about people doing whatever with their money?

That is my point: why are people getting so concerned with what others do? I don't understand the fascination people these days seem to have with what other people do. And I don't really understand why some people I see discussing this topic--people that do not even raid/participate in the content, or even care about it--suddenly start caring when content sales are involved. Is this really about it being a ToS violation only?

Moral objections are fine; I have objections about things, but there's no point in voicing them when they fall on deaf ears. I just don't understand why people feel the need to start crusades over something like this when it's very clear nothing will be done about it. Just like nothing is ever done about the other ToS violations. So I drop it and don't concern myself with it.

[Rubiss]

You conveniently omitted my follow-up question that was meant to go along with that question:



That is my position: why are people getting so concerned with what others do?

So you're answering the question with another question. Okay. It's against the rules. Is that enough of a reason? Now will you answer the original question I posed to you, or are you going to throw out another question to deflect?

[Alleo]

That is my point: why are people getting so concerned with what others do? I don't understand the fascination people these days seem to have with what other people do. And I don't really understand why some people I see discussing this topic--people that do not even raid/participate in the content, or even care about it--suddenly start caring when content sales are involved. Is this really about it being a ToS violation only?

.

Yes for some of us its because they are going against the ToS in such an obvious way and yet will probably never be punished. How can we truly go around and want bots that sell Gil for real money banned if we look away when players are doing the same just instead of gil its content. And maybe a part of us are also just a bit angry because one of the FC that does that also has players that use cheats in PVP and sell ranks in it.

Its just utterly frustrating to have people be sometimes banned for smaller things and yet those that go twice against the ToS (RMT and account sharing) are going to continue with it. Its already bad that they on one hand punish someone if they just talk about using a parser in a party and some reported them for that and them ignoring all the obvious parser uses from the streamers even when it included shout outs for mechanics which seemingly disappointed Yoshida a bit.

For me that is just a double standard. Either you allow RMT thus both bots and those people selling can exist or you dont. And either you are fine with a parser as long as nobody is attacked for their numbers or you are not.

I mean if its all about "why care about this, it does not cheapen your experience" then why not just let SE get something out of this by selling those weapons in the mog station? At least those that want just the look of the weapon can simply buy it, SE gets money, its cheaper than buying it from those raiders and all the rest should not care because it does not cheapen the experience. Also why did people want Ultima to stay synch? If it does not cheapen the experience one expansion later than I hope nobody would complain if they decided to still make it unsynch. (Since a recent interview have pointed out that they still discuss this point)

[Vidu]

You've yet to explain this and are continuing to dodge the question. Why does someone have to have cleared content to discuss RMT practices, violations of terms of service and the morals behind buying and selling content clears?

I'm clearly not HyoMin, but I'd like to present you my thoughts on the matter: The only real reason for someone to get upset/worked up or actually even care about how someone else is getting their clear of that content is "It devalues my achievment if someone else just goes and buys it" - if you havent killed the content in question and havent achieved anything related to it, there is nothing for you to be concerend about. It doesnt devalue anything you achieved, because you never did.
I have a bit of sympathy for those people who actually clear the content by themself - but someone who cant really be concered about their achievment being devalued...? Just getting worked up on the behalf of people who might not even care?

You mention the violation of the ToS - and I assume you refer to the "no account sharing"-policy here - its worth noticing that thats most likely in there so SE wont be responsible in case someone shares their account with someone else and that person just runs with it - its more "You agreed to not share your information, but you did, so we wont help you to get it back" - why else would they care who you share your account with?

In regards to the RMT that we in general most likely all consider annoying: I consider it annoying when its shout-chat trying to sell me gil. If a PF is about trading gil, real money or baby-bunnies for a clear doesnt matter to me.

I'm not fussed about content selling myself either, but I agree with HyoMin: Why are you - and other people - so concerned about what other people do with their time and money when there is no negative effect on your own gameing experience?
If you havent cleared the fights yourself you're not even having your bragging rights cheapend by someone else showing off that shiny Ultimate-Weapon.

I dont understand why you're fighting a fight that doesnt even really concern you - besides maybe seeing those adds in PF, but at the same time I'm seeing far worse and annoying stuff in there on a daily basis...