Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[KaldeaSahaline]

First of all no I don't find eureka fun since killing mobs zone can only keep my interest for not that long since I've done many of those in the past.
Second of all This zone was designed to be a mobs killing zone as such grindy as such if you didn't imagine that it would become that boring by it's very inception I don't know what to say to you.

You're missing my point again. You say this zone was designed specifically for X, and I explained with examples how that's bad design. Designing a core feature to one isolated group with no alternative avenues/functions is juvenile design.

You say that chocobo racing would be better if it was like mario kart, Nope would still be annoying to me.

If I don't like the premise of something coating it with sugar won't make me like it, maybe make it more tolerable but not like it.

Humor me - is there anything they could do to Chocobo racing that would make you like it? How about this - tell me WHY you would find my iteration of Chocobo racing "annoying". Cite specifics/details please.

Many ppl keep buying COD or battelfield does that means that the franchise is excellent btw? Mayority doesn't always mean good

Excellent? Not sure as I'm not a huge FPS player these days. Successful though? Yes. It unequivocally does.

Point is you find hunts fun? I sure don't yet some do. Do I need to say out loud remove hunts because they are not fun?

You're still missing my point. I'm not asking to remove hunts or eureka. I'm asking to design hunts and Eureka to be more robust as to include more playertypes. To stop designing content forms based on the most derivative gameplay possible.

I agree with the first part, not the grind comment here. Or rather, I think grinds, when well-designed, can organically boost content lifespan.

Let me clarify - I don't consider ANYTHING I enjoy a grind, no matter how involved or long it takes.

So when I use the word grind or grindy it very strictly implies not fun and repetitive. Something like A1S light parties would fall into this, Atma farming, Eureka. etc.

Let's take a laughing stock, lord of verminion. I can tell you that if games of verminion took let's say 30 secs to 1 min, the reception would've been better, what's the problem with verminion? Overxtending, SE went too much deep into a minigame and made it too much complex for it's own good. Gold Saucer is just a side activity zone for optional rewards as such content within it should never overstay it's welcome.

Overextending wasn't LoV's issue. Not sure where you even got that from.

Duty recorder could've been very good for analyzing fights, but for reasons they only know it's bogged down by stupid restrictions.

Duty Recorder was a complete waste of dev resources. It demonstrated a clear lack of perspective from the devs. Normal players aren't going to use it because they don't care nor do they do content where accountability/performance is important. Savage players can already accomplish the same thing live via FFLogs or Twitch without having to go through a bunch of stupid hoops and limitations.

The point is that there is no harm to adding more attractions to the game. You are not required to play all of them, just like you're not required to go on the Pirates of the Carribbean ride and Space Mountain. Disneyland also retires rides after they wane in popularity or wear out.

Except there's literally an example that defeats the entire point literally live in Disney World, not sure about Disney Land. Simply adding new attractions isn't good. Adding GOOD attractions is good.

Mission Space is much more than a simple ride. It has 3 different things in it for various "playertypes". You have the intro mission and simulator, then you have the playground for kids, and then you have the video game where teams of up to like 20 people compete to fix a ship. I get motion sickness, so the simulator part is a one and done for the experience for me, but the video game thing was an absolute blast and my buddies and I (on our senior trip) literally challenged everyone who walked in.

A Eureka parallel would have been if the ride was just the simulator.

They watch streamers, that's how they take their infos.

If as I suspect they use streamers as an aggregator of ppl for infos it might be possible that idd they are the sources

This first sentence comes off as stating your opinion as fact. You do not know that's where they get their info from, unless you personally have insider information that msot don't. The second sentence better affirms your position that it's an opinion and open to challenge.

Speaking personally - I don't think that's where they get their info from. I'd bet that have internal tools that give them limited and poor data, and they supplement it with probably mostly JP forum info.

Like if anything is a detriment to the game, it's creating separate "savage" tiers of content at all that only 1-3% of the players play and unwilling to help others learn it. There needs to be some better incentive to get players to help, and not by making players pay for unsync clears. Like maybe don't even unlock the "expert/savage/ultimate" tier until 10-20% of the subscribed players sync-lock clear the previous tier.

Why help players who don't want to be helped? Why force changes based on that? You got your normal mode. Please enjoy that so I can enjoy Savage in peace please. Keep your bias out of design. For everyone sake.

[KisaiTenshi]

Why help players who don't want to be helped? Why force changes based on that? You got your normal mode. Please enjoy that so I can enjoy Savage in peace please. Keep your bias out of design. For everyone sake.

If you read that in context, you'd see that I said that in the same context of where resources should be allocated. If SE was allocating resources evenly to PvP, Raider EX-Primals/Ultimate, Alliance Raids, Overworld, MSQ/Storyline, Eureka, PotD, Chocobo Racing, Lord of Verminion, etc, then allocating any resources at all to anything that isn't MSQ would be seen as a detriment.

The Japanese raiders have three times the clear rate of hard content than NA. That is not NA "players don't want to be helped" that is a particular NA raider mindset that is offputting to doing the content. You can't tell the NA players who don't want to be treated like garbage to go move to the JP servers, because then the JP players would be upset with the rudeness of the NA players, and then SE would likely cease working on that content entirely because the NA players can't be civil.

[Hamada]

But a view streamers do not make a whole playerbase. And reddit itself was pretty negative about it too. There was a thread with over 1000 upvotes and it was really negative. If thats how they get their informations, then no wonder that we got Diadem 2.0..

OMG... if they only get info from onesided viewpoints of streamers, that is a big issue. mr happy will never criticize things of the game, no matter how bad they are. I do not know about the other streamers, but they seem to carry a big bias.

[KisaiTenshi]

OMG... if they only get info from shrill streamers, that is a big issue. mr happy will never say negative things of the game, no matter how bad they are. I do not know about the other streamers.

If he wants to keep those interviews with Yoshi-P/SE staff, he has to keep criticism of the company to a low burn. Journalism is not about opinions, it's about fact-finding.

Generally speaking, some journalists that are given advance access to content, are under a NDA to not publish it before the company wants it to, and are not permitted to level criticism at unfinished content. They can say what they think might be lacking from it, but they can't insert personal opinion, because it might color how it gets received by those who watch/read the journalist's content. Just look at what happened already.

SE is not going to hand out a review copy of a game to someone who routinely makes comments alluding to SE being incompetent like some players do on the forum. There are many criticisms I have of SE as a company that I feel are factually true (eg objectively bad ports of FF5/6/Chrono Trigger, non-trivially bug-ridden ports of FFXIII, XV and Neir Automata) that were not always true. FF7 (1997) and FF8 (1998) PC ports which actually were superior to their PSX versions, but the average PC's music hardware was just awful (FF8 actually included a softsynth, FF7 had a soundfont for Sound Blaster cards. The FMV for both also suffered due to codec license BS), and PC joysticks have always been rubbish. Fast forward to FFXV where the PC version is loading-time hell, and full of nVidia gameworks bugs and memory leaks.

If SE is in fact using twitch players as any kind of barometer of feedback, (to which I hope they're not), it's very likely that they are not listening to people violating the materials usage license:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=authc

Guidelines for Videos

- The video must not require a paid membership for viewing;
- You may not split our videos (vocal, music, visual, etc.) or distribute components as separate assets;
- You may not combine or synchronize the Materials with third party content (e.g., a mash-up); but you may include the Materials alongside third party content (e.g., before or after in the same video) as long as you also have permission from the original copyright owner);
- The video must not contain racist, sexist, homophobic or generally offensive content of any kind. This includes graphic violence or sexually explicit content.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

OMG... if they only get info from onesided viewpoints of streamers, that is a big issue. mr happy will never criticize things of the game, no matter how bad they are. I do not know about the other streamers, but they seem to carry a big bias.

Have you actually watched Mr Happy's stream? He routinely criticises FFXIV. Counting Stormblood alone, he and the podcast he hosts criticised Eureka's frequent delays, poor job balance, Recorder, PvP, the general ease of Savage, Ultimate's hiatus and so on. The only difference is he's not nearly as aggressive about it. Just this wait he was delighted Yoshida claimed they had no idea how to develop Blitzball (thank god).

The Japanese raiders have three times the clear rate of hard content than NA. That is not NA "players don't want to be helped" that is a particular NA raider mindset that is offputting to doing the content. You can't tell the NA players who don't want to be treated like garbage to go move to the JP servers, because then the JP players would be upset with the rudeness of the NA players, and then SE would likely cease working on that content entirely because the NA players can't be civil.

You act as though JP players are incapable of rudeness. Look up 2chan sometime. It's a JP community entirely designed to blacklist, shame and ridicule players they deem bad, whether it's due to low skill levels or simply bias.

As for clear rates, JP clears are higher due to their willingness to put up with lesser skilled players. You will frequently find players with little to no business being in Savage. While this is equally true regarding NA, the tolerance levels are far lower. NA, admittedly, has a more entitled attitude. Although raiders can exhibit such hostility, it often comes from the lower end players who believe they deserve a clear simply because they want one. You also have to consider the different mindsets overall. JP approaches content with the intend of clearing everything because they feel obligated. NA, meanwhile, will not bother with things they have no interest in. Speaking on averages, of course.

Regardless, overall clear rates are more than double your bias estimation. We have data which supports this. And said data purposely cuts off before content becomes unsyncable or players are able to out-gear it.

[Shurrikhan]

Duty Recorder was a complete waste of dev resources. It demonstrated a clear lack of perspective from the devs. Normal players aren't going to use it because they don't care nor do they do content where accountability/performance is important. Savage players can already accomplish the same thing live via FFLogs or Twitch without having to go through a bunch of stupid hoops and limitations.

This. It ended up another in an ever-growing list of resource wasted either by fundamental non-necessity or because it lacks the design quality enough to be sufficiently convenient. Compare it to SC2 replays, for instance. XIV's is largely useless apart from minor RP value. SC2's is disgustingly useful to virtually every skill and interest level. XIV's is inconvenient. SC2's is a simple button in a score screen that you were already looking at, and, once saved, viewable at any time from anywhere.

For those who haven't cared enough even to try out said Duty Recorder, the list I'm referring to is what would include things like the Glamour Dresser (used begrudgingly), most of the Mentor System (used primarily for intentions divergent from design), and many a Golden Saucer game...

[KisaiTenshi]

I wouldn't mind airship ventures if the system produced some actual useful goods...

I don't like these kinds of features because they're not gameplay, they're RNG, and they're the kind of cruft found in mobile games to make up for lack of development skill. There are tonnes of mobile shovelware out there that has less gameplay than games from 1988. Since the mobile space is basically designed around freemium "trade time for money" cash grabs, there is a reason why these kinds of things are fundamentally rubbish.

If I select a retainer venture, airship venture, squadron mission, etc. I expect to be able to play something, not come back in 18 hours to see if I win the RNG lotto. I would not be surprised if these mini-non-games in the CN/KR version cost money to trade off time, and exist because of that market.

This. It ended up another in an ever-growing list of resource wasted either by fundamental non-necessity or because it lacks the design quality enough to be sufficiently convenient. Compare it to SC2 replays, for instance. XIV's is largely useless apart from minor RP value. SC2's is disgustingly useful to virtually every skill and interest level. XIV's is inconvenient. SC2's is a simple button in a score screen that you were already looking at, and, once saved, viewable at any time from anywhere.

For those who haven't cared enough even to try out said Duty Recorder, the list I'm referring to is what would include things like the Glamour Dresser (used begrudgingly), most of the Mentor System (used primarily for intentions divergent from design), and many a Golden Saucer game...

The Duty Recorder was something introduced too late into the lifecycle of the game. It is still the only way as PS4 user can do anything remotely like what some pc players do with unauthorized tools.

It has two uses that SE kinda missed the boat on
1) Machinima, this kind of thing would have made "Final Fantasy XIV: Dad of Light: Season 1" that much easier to produce, as the game engine could be used to play back any arbitrary combat or overworld data, and to make "cleaner" videos, one could change NPC's or players to protect their privacy or exaggerate a gag or something.
2) Combat replay, which is what it seems like it was designed for, but someone could produce an unauthorized tool to record all the incoming packet data and then play it back on the client offline and accomplish the same thing. Since the current version is tied to the maintenance cycle, it seems like it literately does something like this, where it's playing back the data as it was recorded, and is thus not compatibile after maintenance due to whatever minor adjustments or cleanup is done.

The Duty Recorder could easily be the next best thing for video producers the game has where you could play the Duty on the PS4, and then replay it on a PC at 4K later to produce your youtube video, and have the game client render the video slower and higher quality than recording it live would.

[Shurrikhan]

The Duty Recorder... has two uses that SE kinda missed the boat on
1) Machinima, this kind of thing would have made "Final Fantasy XIV: Dad of Light: Season 1" that much easier to produce, as the game engine could be used to play back any arbitrary combat or overworld data, and to make "cleaner" videos, one could change NPC's or players to protect their privacy or exaggerate a gag or something.
2) Combat replay, which is what it seems like it was designed for, but someone could produce an unauthorized tool to record all the incoming packet data and then play it back on the client offline and accomplish the same thing. Since the current version is tied to the maintenance cycle, it seems like it literately does something like this, where it's playing back the data as it was recorded, and is thus not compatibile after maintenance due to whatever minor adjustments or cleanup is done.

The Duty Recorder could easily be the next best thing for video producers the game has where you could play the Duty on the PS4, and then replay it on a PC at 4K later to produce your youtube video, and have the game client render the video slower and higher quality than recording it live would.

And had it managed those things (though I'll also append, for players more like myself, the ability to timestamp and 3D-annotate a replay to that wishlist) and was more convenient to access, I'd be praising the hell out of it. But placing three steps down the path to greatness does not greatness make. It ends instead as meandering and a waste of tile-stones.

Airships, Squadrons, Palace of the Dead, much of the Golden Saucer, even the Job Gauges* all reek of someone very, very jaded -- yet nonetheless optimistic that players have would have no distinct tastes, needs, or creativity to disappoint -- figuring "Hey, that'll do it! Don't spend a day more on this. It's enough to be a thing."

*I mean, who okays a giant, gaudy graphic that won't remotely see use for another 30+ levels? It's like it was decided that we needed a (far later) selling point shoved down our throats to show that "a thing very much does exist!" -- even if needlessly and less intuitively than what it replaces, addition/revision for its own sake.

When something doesn't prepare the way for an eventual goal that your players can get behind, nor is useful in itself, it's out of touch.