Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[Remedi]

off topèic for a bit, but objetcivity in rewiews is why I stop reading/listening to rewiews after they've done showing the technical part of the game, since they hide too much behind the rewiews can't be objective card while totalbiscuit called them out that they should strive for objectivity since rewiews are not meant to be read just by your parents that are set to tell you how smart and good you are. You are writing articles that should present something to a massive audience as such you should do your best to present it in the most unbiased way possible, which doesn't mean you can't display your feelings on the item, but you essentially need to make sure ppl with different tastes than yours can understand what the game is about. If you are not able to than just follow the type of games you like and don't follow the trends for the wiews.
/Rant /off topic

[Vhailor]

I think these are great suggestions. As far as content for larger parties I don't even think it would be difficult for them to implement. I would even be for a system where you could do existing content with larger parties and the difficulty would scale with it.

These would be good steps, I second that. I also think it'd be great to see - which is implied but not explicitly stated here - the flexibility to run content without having exact numbers of people. Part of what made FFXI's content so flexible is that you didn't need to have exactly 6 people in a party, exactly 18 people in an Alliance, exactly X healers, Y tanks, Z damage-dealers. I don't think it's any surprise that Palace of the Dead was the most successful content off-shoot that SE designed: it features precisely this flexibility. It would be fantastic if this flexibility could extended to other areas of the game. I particularly think that it would be a boon for statics, because it would reduce the difficulties associated with a member not show up occasionally.

[NolLacnala]

What I would like to see moving forward, is a narrower scope in the way to types of content, but significantly more depth and longevity of the types they are creating. If you are developing an MMO with an update schedule of 3-4 months rewards should take roughly that long to achieve... Eureka took 2-3 weeks to get all weapons.

While I agree with you on adding longevity to the game, you can't force horizontal grind on vertical progression. Otherwise, people only get to enjoy their three to four months of work for a few days before the next new grind releases. If they complete it at all. You'd have to change the core itemization design first, then move in that direction.

[Vhailor]

While I agree with you on adding longevity to the game, you can't force horizontal grind on vertical progression. Otherwise, people only get to enjoy their three to four months of work for a few days before the next new grind releases. If they complete it at all. You'd have to change the core itemization design first, then move in that direction.

Personally, I think this is worth doing. Ideally what we'd see is an expansion launched with several 'base' itemization paths, 3-4 being a good target. These wouldn't just have different sub-stat allocations: they need to tweak how abilities work, power up certain components of a character (for example, Regen effects are empowered by 15%). A good source of inspiration for this would be item sets in Diablo 3. Then, add in Relic-style upgrade paths for each item set (maybe look back to the various item upgrade quests that FFXI featured as well, for inspiration). Return RHS upgrades to a domain dominated by Crafting so as to juice the markets and introduce a Gil sink of sorts, and boom, we're in business. Gearing a primary character is no longer a one-dimensional process that is rapidly reduced to a busy Tuesday night followed by a week of boredom, because some paths will involve activities other than dungeons, paths that encourage different activities (Hunts, Eureka, Dungeons, Trials, 24-man Raids, NM 8-man Raids, certain large FATE bosses, Heaven-on-High, whatever).

Yes, it'd be a large undertaking, but it would really serve to add content. Every patch release would see grinds for multiple gearsets introduced, per job. And, of course, an additional base layer of gear could be released like normal, gear that essentially provided a matching iLevel but without the bonus stats, so as to allow players to easily catch up. The added time sinks for players would be a far greater return per hour of invested Dev time than we currently see. Even better, the types of item 'Sets' and the play styles they focus on could be shaken up with every expansion, so as to keep things fresh (after awhile they could be cycled with minor tweaks).

[Dyvid]

Well it's possible to have both vertical and horizontal. Vertical would be the current design on stat boost were as horizontal would be materia that would enhance your job's abilities and skills.

[Alleo]

I'd be interested in the source here, but I'd suggest that this actually worsens the situation.

There are several interviews where he stated that they have forseen that people would wait in town thus even discussed if they should put something in it to punish people but decided against it. Thus it feels like they know how its going to be played. (I mean even the Japanese players are waiting in town) Also seeing how Fates give the most rewards, I cant just see how it would have gone any other way. The thing that shocked me more was his one sentence where he said that more people went into this just for fun instead of rewards..which I kinda wonder how they got that information? I mean they have no surveys, both forums were quite more negative about Eureka and even quite a few that liked it had negative things to say..thats were I sometimes get the feeling that they reading their numbers how they want them to be..

About perform and other minor stuff: I like them theoretically, I just have a problem how much time they put into that since they released it while we lack good longtime content. If we had that they could introduce new minor stuff and I would not care but maybe they should really take a good look at their core content before putting so much work into side stuff. Heck even Yoshida said that they used a bit too much for perform..

PVP, perform, fashion report and so on...all that has their place in the game because people need something else next to all fighting..but please only if we have enough of the core things done.

[Remedi]

They watch streamers, that's how they take their infos.
Consider that Frosty's podcast on eureka had more or less a positive outlook, so kinda mrhappy and arthars too, If as I suspect they use streamers as an aggregator of ppl for infos it might be possible that idd they are the sources, This is probably true cosnidering also that companies are idd using streamers for this in recent years (Take notice of the overly cordial tone of mrhappy's interwiew with yoshida too) I'm not saying that they are the devil mind you, but since they have an aggregation power far greater than the OF (which is by some considered a cesspit of drama) thy might idd be a better way to gauge interest, though Imho there's bias of the streamer, which imho makes it a bit unreliable

Also they clearly read reddit considering the time it took for that post regarding RMT to appear and a reminder from SE to not do that to be posted on the lodestone. They have a problem in telling you about what they are listening but they do listen

[KisaiTenshi]

To me it just seems like the attractions are being added at the detriment to the core game.

From a purely technical point of view, there is no detriment in compartmentalized gameplay, eg the theme park.

It's when that stretches into horizontal progression (eg "I'm done with MSQ, time to grind Eureka for another month per job") you might wonder why Eureka's low level monsters have a quarter million HP that you have to shave off 5k at a time, and deliver almost no experience. Like how is that even a remotely fair use of a players time. Compared to PotD where the monsters can be flattened in 2-3 hits. Which feels more fun?

I, simply do not enjoy how Eureka feels because relative to the rest of the game, it feels like this was designed as an abusive time-sink. Just like every relic weapon. Going by patterns established with the relic weapon quests, these are also going to be quickly obsolete by the 5.0, So just wait till 5.0 comes out when it becomes glamour fodder. At least "light" grind's have a point, that if you're doing roulettes for that level you should gradually get it. However the prerequisite steps to get there often involve large time sinks or gil sinks, and unless you got the materials when it was new, those materials are likely things you'll be farming, not buying off the marketboard, thus even more time sinks.

Like if anything is a detriment to the game, it's creating separate "savage" tiers of content at all that only 1-3% of the players play and unwilling to help others learn it. There needs to be some better incentive to get players to help, and not by making players pay for unsync clears. Like maybe don't even unlock the "expert/savage/ultimate" tier until 10-20% of the subscribed players sync-lock clear the previous tier.

[Remedi]

Exactly my criticism, In retrospect I'm kinda baffled that the made potd so right yet they botched the entry experience on Eureka, it really tells that they didn't had the same devs on it. Unless as you say it was made deliberate to slow ppl down.

[Dzian]

The reason why we need grinding back is because there is a intense lack of long term goals, also I'd rather ppl stop using fun as a way to judge content since it's a very subjective choice, some find fun Eureka others don't, just as some like testing themselves in ultimate while others prefer 24 man raids.
Since MMOs targets a wide audience it's impossible to use fun as a metric at all.
I'd rather gut myself than play PvP, but I don't think that Pvpers shouldn't get content at all because of that for example or that they shouldn't receive what they ask of the devs

It's not grinding that lacks long term goals it's that nothing is worth grinding for.

At the current speed of progression long term goals are simply impossible. And any form of grind is largely unacceptable because the rewards At the end just aren't worth any form of grind to get.

You see it a lot even on the forums. So many people say they don't bother with raiding or anything simply because the rewards at the end just aren't worth the grind or the effort. Everything in xiv is incredibly temporary and short lived.

Adding any form of long term goals is simply impossible because the treadmill is so fast that the rewards would be obsolete before players even got close to finishing said grind..

This is why I really don't put much effort into gear because of how quick it's invalidated.. There's just no point.. But then if it wasn't for friends and social connections I wouldn't even play to be honest..

I really wish the game had moreblongevity and substance. Or anything meaningful to actually do.