Omega and future raid concerns

[Eli85]

Heh, I do find a lot of this funny, mostly because there is very little in-genre support for "savage only content," and virtually none outside of the genre. Within the genre, Blizzard has done phases of fights that is only available on their version of savage difficulty, and the complaints about that pile up. It's a lot of the same arguments: players, regardless of the difficulty that they tackle, are entitled to see the content. Which I agree, that they do. So you look at other genres. Say look at the RPG genre, which the MMORPG genre is based upon. So, so many games, when multiple difficulties are in place, just have stat modifiers for enemies. No exclusive fights and no special phases of fights if you're only on particular difficulty. What's so wrong with that? It gives everyone a chance to see the mechanics at a difficulty level that they find appropriate. It's partly why, I think, RPGs are still thriving: players of every walk and life can get the full experience appropriate for their skill level and time commitment.

And before the savage raiders jump down my throat, I used to raid in MMOs at the highest difficulty level. I also enjoy—in the games that I thoroughly enjoy—to play at the highest difficulty level. So I'm not some casual player who wants everything handed to him.

It's just: what exactly are you being deprived of if Neo Exdeath and God Kefka were available in normal? How would a number-reduced versions of these fights in normal affect you in any way, shape, or form?

As a former hardcore raider the answer is simple: it doesn't affect you. At all.

[InkstainedGwyn]

I think what I don't get is that the "extra phases" that people want to see put into "easier versions" (.... isn't... that... what... normal mode... is?) are... the things that make these fights Savage. Like, you pretty much have to remove those phases to make the fights easier. Like with UWU & the 'awaken' mechanics for each primal - it's the sheer reaction time required that makes it both awesome & difficult.

Is this argument really over the fact that Savage has a final mode to each boss that you don't actually want to fight in its current difficulty, and yet aren't willing to just YouTube and watch? You have to have yet another mode of the same content that already has a normal mode just so you can spend 15m face-rolling a phase because it's that important to "see it in person"?

[Tsubaki75]

I think what I don't get is that the "extra phases" that people want to see put into "easier versions" (.... isn't... that... what... normal mode... is?) are... the things that make these fights Savage. Like, you pretty much have to remove those phases to make the fights easier. Like with UWU & the 'awaken' mechanics for each primal - it's the sheer reaction time required that makes it both awesome & difficult.

Exactly this

[Anarnee]

And I totally get that...But at the same time, this wasn't the case before since ARR and HW expansion. Why change it now to give Savage Raiders some kind of reward in the form of a fight and locking normal players out when they weren't doing that before? Savage raiders could have still gotten that fight and would have gotten a better reward/trophy in the form of a weapon or gear that normal players couldn't achieve. THAT was the real reward in my opinion. I can accept that fact that I will never have that gear but to completely lock out a portion of the a fight just seems dumb to me.

Did you not play ARR? Coil was all on a higher difficulty, plenty of people didn't ever get to experience that, so they made story mode in HW.

These watered down fights are specially made for you. Why do you even want to experience it at all if you don't want to do the fights as they should be, an actual challenge? You got your story mode, be happy for that.

Heh, I do find a lot of this funny, mostly because there is very little in-genre support for "savage only content," and virtually none outside of the genre. Within the genre, Blizzard has done phases of fights that is only available on their version of savage difficulty, and the complaints about that pile up. It's a lot of the same arguments: players, regardless of the difficulty that they tackle, are entitled to see the content. Which I agree, that they do. So you look at other genres. Say look at the RPG genre, which the MMORPG genre is based upon. So, so many games, when multiple difficulties are in place, just have stat modifiers for enemies. No exclusive fights and no special phases of fights if you're only on particular difficulty. What's so wrong with that? It gives everyone a chance to see the mechanics at a difficulty level that they find appropriate. It's partly why, I think, RPGs are still thriving: players of every walk and life can get the full experience appropriate for their skill level and time commitment.

And before the savage raiders jump down my throat, I used to raid in MMOs at the highest difficulty level. I also enjoy—in the games that I thoroughly enjoy—to play at the highest difficulty level. So I'm not some casual player who wants everything handed to him.

It's just: what exactly are you being deprived of if Neo Exdeath and God Kefka were available in normal? How would a number-reduced versions of these fights in normal affect you in any way, shape, or form?

As a former hardcore raider the answer is simple: it doesn't affect you. At all.

I as someone that doesn't raid much anymore don't want the dev time put into fiddling with a fight meant to be hard, making it easier. Leave the Savage stuff as it is and work on something else. We don't need that extra phase in the normal modes.

Only it factually is. Development is a zero-sum game, you can't have them developing this kind of thing without giving up on something. We already lost a dungeon every other patch for Ultimate and who knows what more, to stress the point.

Please stop blaming loosing a dungeon on Ultimate. We lost dungeons for Eureka. Ultimate reuses so many assets it doesn't take nearly as much as Eureka, and I'm getting so tried of seeing that thrown around.

[Awha]

An interesting compromise is if they made easier fights of unique encounters with less mechanics and released them maybe a patch after their savage or ultimate counter part. As mentioned before I am still working on ultimate and I am having a blast. If more players get to experience the overall encounter without nerfing the main encounter overall I do not think players that are unwilling or able to get into savage or ultimate have room to complain. Give the a lite version that offers a similar feel and taste. I am sure SE is capable of that.

[Sapphire_Dianta]

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Seconding this. I'm honestly baffled that people essentally are asking for a "Normal version of Savage, but not the normal kind of Normal, a different Normal" fight. The entry barrier for Savage is lower than ever, and it really doesn't take that much effort to get into. I would even say that OS5 and OS6 are about the same difficulty as the new EX primal. And as for the time required to complete them, my static group (some people I've been friends with across different games for years) meet up once a week for about an hour and clear the first three, then poke at Kefka now and then if we have time later on in the week. We don’t take it seriously, we're just there to have fun. Ultimately, the only thing stopping you from doing Savage is... well, you.

[Eli85]

I as someone that doesn't raid much anymore don't want the dev time put into fiddling with a fight meant to be hard, making it easier. Leave the Savage stuff as it is and work on something else. We don't need that extra phase in the normal modes.

It would be a simple numbers pass. It would take minimal time to implement. Also don't speak for others. There are enough players in this thread making it known that the savage stuff in normal is very desirable.

[InkstainedGwyn]

It would be a simple numbers pass.

Most of the time, what is killing people with "hard" mechanics is not simply the amount of damage done/needed to be done to the boss. It's reaction times, multiple mechanics at once, memorizing what comes when (or not being able to bc of RNG), placement so you can navigate one mechanic into another mechanic or two-three at once. Just "lowering the numbers" would help approximately 0 people who can't do savage manage a normal version, as evidenced by people who go into unsync'd Alexander and still can't clear - ilvl is essentially "lowering the numbers". And they still can't.

[Ameela]

I bought my copy of Final Fantasy VII but I can't beat Emerald Weapon, why isn't there an easier version so I can experience the fight? I'm a paying customer I deserve to see everything in the game!
That's just silly, every RPG has some kind of difficult super boss which not everyone is going to be good enough to fight.
You don't see people complain that the Ixal, Moogle and Namazu quests are locked to crafters only, I'd love to see the storyline and get the rewards from those quests but unfortunately I have neither the time nor the patience to delve into crafting, but you don't see me demanding that content be available to me so I can experience it without putting in the same ammount of effort as others.

[Consurgens]

My only issue is with the Omega raid in particular: for a game that presents itself as some sort of celebration of the franchise - full of references and nostalgic throwbacks - having iconic, popular fights like God Kefka locked behind a less-accessible skill-based content seems counterproductive. I don't mind that Winged Brute Justice is savage-exclusive because Winged Brute Justice is his own thing in his contained XIV universe, having no nostalgic appeal to the average Final Fantasy fan, but I understand it might be frustrating to someone who grew up with FFV - who only got into FFXIV because FFV introduced them to the franchise - have a hard time trying out glorious 3D HD Neo Exdeath first-hand once it's released.

Every other reference I've seen so far, with the exception of some Coil bosses, have been largely accessible to the playerbase: the Warring Triad trials, the Crystal Tower series, Return to Ivalice series, the angelic FFIX Alexander Prime... Why is Cloud of Darkness in her full form much more accessible than God Kefka? Why is the accessible Normal Kefka so underwhelming, having the whole statue and Dancing Mad theme progression going on so well only to abruptly end in it's climax because "dude now clear savage to find out haha"? At least Normal Exdeath felt like a more complete fight.

Had the Omega raid been it's own thing with unique fights instead of trying to earn nostalgia points, I wouldn't mind and I actually appreciate the extra phase for those who dedicate themselves to the harder content.

On the other hand, to OP: I strongly encourage you to try out the current savage tiers, as they're considerably accessible even in Party Finder. You don't need a static to clear any of the 8 omega fights, just patience and willingness to improve. You can also wait until more powerful gear is released and give the fights a try later on.